Fans Vs. Fam

Btw Janet and Randy are making a live appearance with Al Sharpton on his show, not sure when but I think within the next half hour: http://www.livetvcenter.com/msnbc_1547.asp

so yeah, did y'all catch the show?

Janet wasn't on it, but Randy was. Janet was heading back to Arizona to be with Katherine and Rebbie. Randy didn't really offer anything groundbreaking except that security/trent wouldn't allow them on the property. They were just there to see if the kids wanted to go see and be with Katherine but were basically kicked out. He talked about shady people being around the kids and the estate being shady. He brought up the fact that Mike was in New York and not L.A. when the will was signed. Al Sharpton backed him up on that. Randy wants answers about the inconsistencies regarding the will.

This just seems a mess of a family really.

The kids had the chance to go be with Katherine and didn't take it. Kind of have to wonder why they didn't take it. Who is in their ears? Why are some family members being barred from the house? And why are the ones barred the very ones that are/were WITH Katherine? Everyone seems to KNOW that Katherine is alright though, but that her health is frail. Which to me makes this all the more bizarre.

and jfc...the family needs to figure stuff out soon. The estate evidently prepared the papers for guardianship of the kids to be transferred. This complicates stuff to an unimaginable degree.

This definitively seems like the estate has this family divided in two about everything and it seems to be the root cause of all this trouble.

And yeah, I can't help but agree that Paris is causing a lot of drama. BUT I also am like...how easy would it be to just put her on the phone with Katherine? What are they waiting for?

yep...still confused.

edit:...lmao, TMZ fails again. Paris tweeted that Janet didn't slap her I guess

edit again lol...this also occurred to me. and it kind of makes me wonder why some fans aren't thinking this or haven't brought it up. If the Jackson's can/do prove that the will is fake then the executors will most likely be charged with fraud. This means that the 97' will shall go into effect. But i see some fans pointing out that the Johns' are still the executors on that will. They are forgetting that if the 2002 will is faked then obviously they would NOT be put back in charge of the estate because of the fraud with the 2002 will. The '97 will would go into effect but the court would be the one to decide who the executors would probably be. Not the family or the kids. This is also why the whole 'greedy evil Jacksons' toting doesn't work. Either way you dice it that family will have nothing to do with the estate or the money. And also, if the family is to believed, just speculation here....if the John's have the gall to commit fraud with the will...then they will definitely commit other types of fraud and chaos...potential future problems for the children. I think this is a real concern to them possibly.

I just can't wrap my head around any scenario where the family would profit in any way with contesting the authenticity of the will. I mean, yeah, the guardians of PPB would temporarily get some income to provide for them...but jc, it's not for eternity. The kids WILL grow up.

and also Katherine gets money until she passes, but I'm pretty sure that she has to account for where her money is going while she lives. After that...it all goes back to the kids.

Idk...still trying to brainstorm possible scenarios around these things so they make sense to me is some sort of fashion with regard to the families actions.

I aslo find it interesting that Joe, Toya, Jackie, and Marlon are as silence as they are. Toya don't never keep her mouth shut about nuthin, lol. Nor does Joe.

Girls...that video of Marlon. Have you all seen that? I'm shocked by it.


I just wanna console him. This is so out of character for Marlon. He's clearly angered and upset. That's worrying to see.

Something is really going down. And omertas, I can see how that (with the executors) may be taking place.

hey guys sorry if you keep getting notifications of new posts and finding the posts deleted. i can't believe i'm THAT nervous about giving my opinions on matters of the Jacksons cause i've seen how ugly it can get among MJ fans (even though i think each and every one of you is cool). if the emails have the actual post message i guess you'll know how i really feel about this entire scenario lol.

Hey wonderfulworld! Don't be nervous to post here! We love open discussion and we're definitely not the type of fans who go all crazy, like on other boards. The more the merrier!
---

So this is what I'm getting on Day 3 (?) of this whole drama: half of the siblings are pushing for the executors to step down (namely, Jermaine, Janet, Randy, Rebbie and previously, Tito). The other half (namely, Marlon, Jackie and Tito - and possibly LaToya) are not contesting the will. In fact (to my measly knowledge), Katherine herself is not looking to contest the will.

(And where the hell is Joe??? I needs to know where Papa Joe is at all times! Haha!)

The "theory" now is that Randy (who has seemingly planned to kidnap his mother for months now ) took Katherine to Arizona under the guise of "she's not feeling well, she needs to get away." Apparently, Katherine never knew Randy's overall intentions - which is to either a.) get her to join in on contesting the will or b.) get her guardianship over PPB taken away so that they can have guardianship. (Which, btw, both of those scenarios don't make sense to me, as all of you have pointed out the various reasons these wouldn't work to their benefit anyways).

The only thing that gives any of the above mentioned theory any credit, no matter how minuscule, is the apparent fact that Marlon, Jackie, and Tito (as well as other Jackson siblings) have confirmed that they do not know where their mother and grandmother is - and apparently feel offended by Randy, in some way.

On the other side of the "theory" is that the executors - along with the people who are around PPB and Katherine - are strategically keeping them away from their family members and abusing them financially, in some way or another. The Estate seem very opposed to the family and may have a hand in all of this.

Then - maybe it's all a mess of an understanding. Maybe the kids knew where grandma was, but were panicked by people around them. Paris started posting stuff all over Twitter. Randy and Janet decided to go down there and put an end to all the confusion and take them to see their grandmother (which is STILL odd, because PPB outright refused. This suggests that either a.) they don't trust their family members for one reason or another or b.) they knew where grandma was and, perhaps, weren't as "frantic" as they seemed. Still, the fact that Marlon is so frantic lends credit to Paris being frantic.)

What confuses me is - didn't Paris go to the concert with her uncles the other night? How are you all around each other (apparently) but not communicating? That night she's having a good time and by morning she's, more or less, agreeing with certain fans posting about how great it was that her father stayed away from her family? I really like Paris - but even her role confuses me in all of this.

This is crazy. In sum, while I don't consider any of the Jacksons outright demons and am not lazy and crazy enough to say they are all "money hungry" and whatnot, there is obviously tension between half of the siblings. That video with Marlon proves that. The siblings seem like they are on opposite sides of the fence - and that tension has morphed on over into involving Katherine and PPB.

This suckkks.

---
Edit: Why do fans think that the siblings have no right to contest the will? I understand the general hate they feel which has been boiling over for years now. But I don't understand how they feel the family have no rights to do anything. That they don't have the right to figure out things that concern their brother. Fans act as if Michael left us a piece of the pie. And they act like they have guardianship over Michael's children - some messed up fantasy that they need to protect them. I think Amy or Gemma (and perhaps all of us) at one point realized that some of these fans have morphed their obsession with Michael over to the children - which in my opinion is sick. Michael was oppressed enough while he was here and I can't help but to think that fans only added to that.

And this is why I didn't really feel great about the fact that Paris had a twitter. Now, I am not saying that she is disallowed in having one. But she is still a child and fans can be oppressive. I don't need to tell you how some of them can act. We've seen the disgusting behaviors over the last few days. In my opinion, tweeting with her - as a child who is still impressionable and still has a lot of individual soul-searching to do - isn't a great thing. WE SHOULD NOT BE TALKING TO HER ABOUT HER FAMILY. We don't know them. We shouldn't be "imparting wisdom" or so called, "looking out for her". NO! It's not our duty. Michael did not leave US guardianship. He didn't even leave their biological mother guardianship! So what makes us faceless and nameless fans think we have any rights?

When you sit back and think about it - none of this stuff is our business. It never was to begin with. I am not obligated to "take a side" or "be a true fan" to anyone or anybody. And I don't hate people I don't know and probably will never know. Michael didn't belong to me, or any of us. We only got what he wanted us to have.

This has been my rant.

Update:

Michaels Justice ‏@ACMC_
Good Morning America just announces that Randy Jackson informed them that Mrs Katherine is on her way home!

Good Morning America ‏@GMA
Randy Jackson tells @GMA that Mom, Katherine Jackson is safe and on her way to Los Angeles!

Hmm...

EDIT:

(This is from Roger Friedman, so take this how you will)

Katherine Jackson coming back to Los Angeles? That’s what Randy Jackson, the mastermind of her vanishing, told “Good Morning America” this morning. If so, the gambit by Katherine’s lawyers and the Jackson children’s guardian ad litem to seek temporary guardianship in court, has worked. They’ve forced Randy, Jermaine and Janet to bring their mother home.

That should be some reunion. Wait until Katherine Jackson’s lawyers explain to her what happened, and what four of her kids (Rebbie included) did.

Randy Jackson will have lost all his power in the family. Last night three of his brothers went on “The Insider” to denounce him, if not by name. A fourth Tito, recanted signing the infamous letter to the executors. Jermaine has gone silent, suddenly. La Toya and Joseph Jackson have stayed out of the story entirely.

Possibly ruined from this: Janet Jackson, who’s wound up on the front page of every tabloid this morning allegedly calling niece Paris a bitch. Janet, who was always regarded as above it all, has let Randy pull her into his mud fight for money. Her declining career has now taken a beating. She barged into her mother’s rented estate and is seen on a security camera pulling a phone out of Paris’s hand. And yelling at her. What she called her doesn’t matter. It looks like a home invasion.

And the children: they’ll never forget the chaos into which they threw their lives. Paris, particularly.

But this is Randy Jackson’s history:

He was not a member of the Jackson 5, doesn’t sing, and doesn’t have gainful employment. He’s the Randy Jackson who’s been through at least one divorce and one bankruptcy. He’s relied heavily on Brian Oxman, an ex attorney recently disbarred for life in California.

Randy Jackson almost cost Michael $45 million in sour deal and lawsuit from a company called Prescient Capital. The case was finally settled for a few million– of Michael’s, not Randy’s, money. This is the same Randy Jackson who fired Raymone Bain, Michael’s publicist, on the eve of the jury announcement in his child molestation trial June 2005. Michael had no press rep when the verdict came back “not guilty.”

He’s the same Randy Jackson who sold pictures and video of his family fighting among themselves to media outlets. One of Michael’s ex bodyguards claimed in the British press that Michael wanted to have Randy killed. And now Randy Jackson has caused permanent rifts in his family between Michael’s children and everyone else, with Michael’s mother, and among his siblings.

Not very well played.

---

Exclusive: Katherine Jackson finally spoke to her grandchildren by phone from Phoenix this morning. A source says the conversation “lasted a while.” The kids are said to be very relieved. But despite Randy Jackson’s statement this morning, Mrs. Jackson is still in Phoenix. It does like the guardianship hearing may take place anyway, with TJ Jackson, 34, being put forward as a temporary replacement. But the phone call, and the idea that Mrs. Jackson may return soon from Phoenix to Los Angeles, is an indication that Randy Jackson’s “palace coup”–which has very hurt Janet Jackson’s image–is coming to an end.

For the kids, it was 11 days of silence from their legal guardian and beloved grandmother. Her cell phone and laptop were taken from her. Her friends who play “Words with Friends” with Mrs. Jackson on the internet were very worried, too. “She loves playing with them.” Her kids, Janet, Randy, Jermaine, and Rebbie, isolated her from all regular activity.

Paris Jackson just Tweeted: “everyones taking control of me , it seems that the worlds got a role for me .. im so confused will u show to me you’ll be there for me” from the song “Will U Be There” by her father. What a day. What a weird situation!

http://www.showbiz411.com/2012/07/25/exclusive-katherine-jackson-speaks-to-grandchildren-at-last

@wonderfulworld, please don't be afraid to post. We're very open-minded here and ditto to everything Dana said. We lOVE open discussion. Even if it's just throwing out ideas or whatever, lol. There is no right or wrong answer here, y'know?

Jesus, that video of Marlon.



Dana, I think you pretty much summed up the situation or what we know of it. Not so sure about that article about Randy/Janet though. It seems to me that there is some serious stuff going on that needs to be dealt with regarding the estate and the children. I don't think anyone means any real harm in their actions. But blah...yeah. Katherine is on her way home then? Thank goodness. It seems like everyone is attempting to protect the children, but they all have different ideas of what that means and how to go about it. And perhaps the estate/the johns are TOO involved in the childrens personal lives (?) and some of the family is resentful and wondering why they have say in some stuff. It's all still a giant mess, but at least Katherine is on her way home. Everything else can be dealt with I suppose. It seems that the media really has it out for Randy and Janet right now. Only time will tell what is going to happen and what this all has accomplished, if anything. I personally don't think the children were accosted by Randy and Janet or abused in any way. I can totally see the older kids being stubborn (gee...wonder why? Mike wasn't stubborn at alllll, lol) and refusing to listen to Janet about Katherine. The girl might have had a one track mind and stuck to her guns, demanding that Katherine return at once. She wasn't going to cave with that? Then you have interfering fans and other family members egging her on and praising her with her decisions/tweets. The whole thing just got crazy out of hand with all of them being unwilling to give a little or communicate.

shrug, I just hope things turn out okay. Atm, I'm not liking how the whole family looks a fool. It's kind of weird to think that Toya is the one looking the most sane in the media. Plot twist city, hahahaha. I love that woman with her crazy self though.

^

Various news sites are saying that the conversation between Kat and her grandkids was very emotional and that Mrs. Jackson is very upset with her children (i.e., Randy, Janet, Jermaine). I don't put full trust what these "sources" are saying, but I'm just putting it all in here.

I really wonder, WHO released that security video at the Jackson home???

And yes, omertas! I hate how this is making the family look as a whole. I don't expect the media to be friendly toward the family in any way, but this whole thing really wasn't handled in the best possible way.

All that being said, I would LOVE to hear from Janet. She is so "involved," ya know? I really want to be able to hear her side.

Apparently there is still going to be some kind of custody hearing today. Wonder how that will turn out.
---

To play devil's advocate - and by no means hopping on the "let's hate Randy, Janet, Rebbie, Jermaine" train - what if there is something going on with Randy? Just for discussion. My whole thing is, why Randy? What is it about Randy - out of everybody - is making all these people (and perhaps the other siblings) so upset? I don't get it yet.

All I know girls is when it involves the name Jackson.. the media scrambles....To me this is tabloid trash..again living it up on Michael's name

I don't know about you but looking at the footage of Janet at the home didn't really look like a scuffle at all...maybe it is just me..they were video taping it on their phones...something just don't make sense..

My only concern here it this...I hope that Katherine is okay...and the children are safe!

These kids have gone through so much....now this

Well folks, all this mess has reached its pinnacle, I guess. TJ has custody. And Katherine (appears) to have done nothing wrong and was "held against her will".

If that's actually true...wow.

10:34 AM JUDGE BECKLOFF JUST MADE TJ THE TEMPORARY GUARDIAN AND SUSPENDED KATHERINE'S GUARDIANSHIP!

Before Beckloff appointed TJ ... TJ's lawyer said TJ had a strange phone call with Katherine yesterday and TJ said, "I've never heard my grandmother talk like that." TJ added, "She wasn't sharp. The pauses, choice of vocabulary ... she has not used certain phrases like that before." TJ thought she was talking in code. As TJ addressed the court, he was choking up.

Beckloff said this was not a power play by TJ and ordered the Michael Jackson Estate to give TJ the funds necessary to take care of security and anything else that's needed for the children.

Before Beckloff appointed TJ, the lawyer for MJ's kids said the kids all support TJ getting temporary guardianship.

The lawyer for the MJ Estate just said the executors are very concerned for the kids and Katherine.

The judge said Katherine was not suspended for wrongdoing, but that she was prevented from doing her guardianship duties by "intentional act from third parties." In other words, the judge smells a rat in the form of Randy, Jermaine and Janet.

10:34 AM The judge just ordered that MJ's 3 kids NOT be removed from California without a court order. The judge added that TJ should file a petition for PERMANENT GUARDIANSHIP. The judge said in addition to giving Diana Ross notice, they must also give notice to Debbie Rowe.

10:33 AM Katherine's lawyer, Sandra Ribera, just said she (Sandra) has been to the house several times recently and she believes Katherine has been held against her will.

10:31 AM TJ's lawyer, Charles Schultz, just told the court, Katherine is unavailable and all they want is a temporary guardianship so he seems to be saying Ross is an unnecessary party. Schultz also said there was an "incident" at the Calabasas house last night that escalated. He added TJ is unsure Katherine is acting voluntarily

10:29 AM The Judge will not hear TJ's petition, BECAUSE no one notified Diana Ross, who is Katherine's successor to guardianship under Michael's will.


10:13 AM -- The hearing is underway. Before getting to TJ's petition, Judge Mitch Beckloff is handling several other MJ Estate matters.

from TMZ....
"Katherine's lawyer, Perry Sanders, said he would oppose any effort to make TJ the permanent guardian. Sanders said he had no basis for believing Katherine was kidnapped. Sanders says he thinks this whole thing was a "giant misunderstanding." When Katherine returns to L.A., he says he will file a motion to reinstate Katherine as guardian. Perry says Randy assured him Katherine was coming home today. Here's what's really weird. Sanders acknowledged Randy and company would not let his see Katherine when he flew to Arizona.

Sanders says TJ was the "logical person" to become temporary guardian. Sanders says he believes TJ will be thrilled to handle the guardianship mantle back to Katherine when she returns, but that's not the way it sounded in court.

We're live outside the courthouse where a judge named TJ Jackson temporary guardian of Michael Jackson's three children -- and SUSPENDED Katherine Jackson's guardianship."


wow, just wow. I don't even really have words for this mess. No ones explanations make any sense from either side.

and the media...



don't sound like anyone has any 'facts' but just a whole truckload of speculation.

I'm also wondering why the media is so adamant about calling Randy out. Why not Janet and Rebbie too? and some of these reporters still asking about Janet slapping Paris as if it actually happened.

welp...

So Janet 'slapping' Paris was all over the papers here yesterday, and everyone around me was asking about it and UGH. It's not even true! All you have to do is watch the footage to see what really happened. I fear that Janet's career is going to take quite a beating from this. :/

On who leaked the footage; perhaps this is another part of the plan to make the family look bad? I think Trent may have leaked it, I mean who else would've? And why is he so damn silent all of a sudden?

Holu s**t. randy is going off on twitter yall. He aint mixing words at all. id elaborate but im on my phone

^ Omg he dropped this bomb:

Quote :

"I was on the phone at 9pm in Los Angeles, with my sister Rebbie, when my mother FIRED Trent and Security"

I knew it was Trent and the security who were up to shady shit!!

Ohhhhhh shit. Idk man. Staying tuned I guess.

I smell a rat...someone is trying to really cause an uproar in the Jackson camp...

I agree I guess it is all a waiting game now!!!!

Then again who suffers the children.....

You don't hear much about little blanket!! I hope that he is okay!!!!

Ooh, what else is Randy saying on Twitter?

Soo many conflicting reports. Some are saying that Katherine is highly upset with Randy, Jermaine, and Janet right now. I don't know what to believe.

I'm sorry, but THIS is what I can't stand about Paris and Twitter:

Quote :

Favourited by Paris:

love him ‏@AnnieMJJlover
RANDY SIT YO ASS DOWN LYING TO MARLON U IS DA YOUNGEST JACKSON

Even if she's mad at her uncle, someone needs to tell her to stop doing that. Stop adding fuel to the fire. No matter what's going on, she doesn't need to be on Twitter co-signing trash talk from people who don't even know her family. Goodness.

^ Argh yes yes yes yes! And she's been replying to tweets from very well known MJJC members trashing the family too! Stuff like, "Paris is a strong girl, let her speak up!" and shit like that. No, you DON'T feed the mind of a 14 year old girl. No matter how "mature" she may seem to be, she is still a child and part of this mess is unfortunately her fault. Janet should've taken that phone off her when she had the chance.

Edit: Following the drama on twitter, here's some choice tweets from some fans that seem to be turning on Katherine now:

Quote :

"I am sorry Katherine. I am sorry Paris, Prince and Blanket. I am sorry Michael."

Quote :

I don't see how Katherine saying she voluntarily did not have any communications with kids she's legally responsible for is gonna help her

Quote :

Did Katherine said that herself that she just gave up her phone? Well, in that case, she should not be the guardian.

Quote :

I hope TJ would still file for the guardianship because it's obviously that Katherine can not put the kids in first priority.

And btw Joe Vogel just tweeted this shit:

Quote :

To those piling on @ParisJackson: Remember, as much as Michael valued his children's privacy, he also wanted them to have a voice.

OMG KAREN FAYE IS ACTUALLY RIGHT FOR ONCE:

Quote :

With the information you have been exposed to, I understand your deduction. RT @Lil100: @wingheart I think MJ's lawyers have done a great job paying his debt. And alotting funds to KJ and the kids. I don't get Janet at all

(Her words are the first part)

Edit: New photo!



Edit again:

ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME.

Quote :

I think Janet stood beside Jermaine's huge boobs so that we wouldn't notice her weight gain. #KMJ

From this pathetic excuse of a fan - https://twitter.com/KingMikeJ

Another one:

Quote :

I hope you realize that you've official flushed your career and sanity down the toilet, no one will view you the same again @JanetJackson

Who the fuck are these fans.

I've seen posts saying "F*ck Katherine" and "Michael was wrong about his mother." Some have even gone as far as pondering on what's going to happen "once she dies."

I just can't. And as much respect as I have for Paris, I simply don't agree with her. It's one thing to be concerned for you grandmother and express it. It's another thing to cosign trash talk from people who do not know your family. It's irresponsible on her part and totally irrational on the fans part.

If you were to even try to be rational and offer a different opinion on a fan-board right now, you'd get trashed. You'd get mocked and accused of betraying PPB and Michael - like they even knew us.

I dislike how the family have handled this. And I really hate that Katherine is caught in the middle. My heart breaks for her the most. Someone brought up on MJJE about TJ's comments over Katherine slurring her words and not sounding good. You guys, that does sound like something akin to a stroke.

^ On the slurring speech....fans are putting that down to Katherine apparently being DRUGGED by Randy and co now.

Seriously.

Seriously.

I am done with this fucking fandom.

I know dude! I saw that.

I'm done with much of the fandom too. This seems like the only space where you can even express your opinion without hatred being thrown at you. I'm just going to wait and see what all happens with the family's statements. And, god, I just hope they manage to get on one page here!

^ I hear you girl, big time.

Ivy from MJJC is to me, causing the most damage to the community. Thousands of fans follow her because they think she knows her shit, but in all honesty the kind of stuff she says is so fucking far off that it's laughable. Sorry for my language today and for being so blunt, but she really pisses me right off. She's now passing around the claim that Katherine was either drugged or given alcohol and that the siblings are trying to kidnap her.

I kid you not.

Also apparently the kids got new security today and that's cause for concern.

Michelle wrote:

I've seen posts saying "F*ck Katherine" and "Michael was wrong about his mother." Some have even gone as far as pondering on what's going to happen "once she dies."

By far some of the most vile shit I've seen has been stuff directed at Katherine. Someone on MJJC said "KATHERINE CAN EAT IT!"........they are talking about an elderly woman who has possibly showing signs of having had a stroke/maybe even developing a cloudy mind. Where's the compassion for her? I don't get the state of mind that can make someone essentially say "MICHAEL I LOVE YOU I'M DOING YOUR WORK FOR YOU ALSO FUCK YOUR MOTHER!!"

The claims about drugging Katherine -- these people need to realize how SERIOUS of an accusation that is. Jesus.

This is mob mentality now. Total madness, zero logic. And it really doesn't help that "news" outlets can't be bothered to get their facts straight when reporting on this, feeding more fuel into the fire.

I just saw an article on Jezebel that proclaimed Tito was the kids' new official guardian. They fixed it after someone told them they were sorely mistaken, but still...how hard is it to do five minutes of reading before publishing your thoughts on a high-traffic site?

Well, you can always count on T-Mez:



Gotta love him. I swear, I'd make this guy my professional mentor if I could. LOL!

Why doesn't it surprise me that apparently some fans think the siblings "resent" PPB because they (in their words) "don't look black"?

Somebody help me restore some faith in sanity.

EDIT: Another thing - why do fans think it's a crime if Michael paid for things for his siblings? I'm talking about while he was still here.

Look, in my opinion, Michael Jackson did what Michael Jackson wanted to do, in most cases. If he decided to pay for something for his family, then that was his decision to make. Why does it always have to be Michael as the poor, cash cow? Now, I know family can be worrisome at times, as I'm sure the Jacksons had their various moments. But still, ultimately, that was his choice.

I don't get how they moan over and over again of how Jermaine should "get a job." But when he does a job, going on tour with his brothers - being the performer he's always been - it's a problem.

They can't win for losing with fans.