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 Fans Vs. Fam

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Michelle

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PostSubject: Re: Fans Vs. Fam   Tue Jul 31, 2012 7:16 am

And why would the estate bar Jermaine, Randy, and Rebbie's families as well?

So you're telling me that if Katherine wants to see 4 of her own children and her own husband, she has to go outside of her home? As well as her other grandchildren?

I don't care what went down, that doesn't seem right at all. I don't get it. I really don't get any of this anymore.

The comments from the "true fans" on this is disturbing:
Quote :
I do hope they end up in jail. My love for Michael does not extend to the siblings.
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Do you think that Michael would love anybody who extended such hatred
toward his brothers?
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the will speaks for itself. no money for the siblings, their wives and children. so let them go to jail. maybe that experience will teach them a lesson.
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i hope they end up in jail, too. they deserve it. if you can't pay child support then get a @#$%$ing job instead of harassing minor children.

Full of L.O.V.E.

You know, I love Michael and everything. But considering the fan's logic about the "broke-ass Jacksons"....when Michael was heavily in debt, how did they console their anger then? Not getting on Mike's case, but it sure is convenient when talking about "Michael's money" - especially when most of it was accumulated after his death. Neutral

And these people really need to get off the "Poor Michael paid for everything for these leeches" train. So what. Michael CHOSE to do that. Ain't no "poor" Michael anywhere in that.

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Michelle

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PostSubject: Re: Fans Vs. Fam   Thu Aug 02, 2012 5:12 am

I'm sure you all have seen this by now, but just posting it anyways.

Jermaine twitter message

Yesterday, I had a phone call with my son Jaafar that broke my heart. He asked: "Is it true that we cannot visit grandmother's house as a family anymore?" Enough has become enough... After much soul-searching, it is clearly time for us to live by Michael's words about love not war. In this spirit, I offer this statement by way of extending an olive-branch. Accordingly, I rescind my signature from the letter which was sent to the Estate, and which should never have gone public. I still hold deep reservations about many issues involving the Estate, and I will continue to bring scrutiny and a resolute voice wherever we have cause for concern. But the way to address such matters is through the proper channels and via a private dialogue, not public conflict. Whatever the tabloid and on-line misrepresentations have led people to believe, my primary concern has only ever been rooted in the welfare of our mother in the environment where she lives. No-one on the outside has a clue about the stresses and pressures she has been under long before recent events and I, like everyone in the family, adore the ground she walks on. We are also still raw from the loss of Michael three years ago. The ever-present grief has haunted me with questions about whether we stepped off him too much or whether we did enough to help when a corporate world surrounded him. So when it comes to the well-being of loved ones, and especially our mother, we are perhaps understandably and unapologetically over-protective. As attorney Perry Sanders has since confirmed, a health check detected high blood pressure with Mother. Rest was the sole reason she went to Arizona. Prince even carried her bags down the stairs and urged her to rest-up, because we all come from the same caring place. When she was away, and with the children in the responsible care of Tito's son TJ, there was never a malicious attempt to "block" the kids from talking with her. We simply worried that a call home would first entail, or lead to, conversations with individuals we are in dispute with and that would, therefore, increase pressure on Mother -- and pressure was what a doctor said she didn't need. This was why we went to the house in Calabasas to talk directly with the kids and merely discuss arrangements for them to meet with their grandmother. We were denied that access by security -- and it was clear that mutual suspicions had allowed events to spiral out of control. I regret that events were ever allowed to reach such a stage. I regret any distress caused to Prince, Paris and Blanket. That was never, ever the intention of myself, Janet, Rebbie or Randy. Moving forward, the most effective way to best serve Mother's welfare, and that of Michael's children, is to start a collective dialogue, in private. Mistakes have been made and irrational things have been said on both sides in a highly-charged emotional environment. It is time for us all to draw a line in the sand and move towards peace, co-operation, love and healing. I truly hope that we can find it in our hearts to do so. Because above and beyond anything else, what matters...is family.

http://www.twitlonger.com/show/ikma93
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PostSubject: Re: Fans Vs. Fam   Thu Aug 02, 2012 7:22 am

Ugh, this whole thing is disturbing to me beyond a normal degree.

Who the hell does the estate think they are to delegate who does and does not get to see Katherine. Who the hell gives them the moral right to keep grandchildren away from their grandmother!!!!!!!

Alas, it seems like their 'plan' is working since Jermaine backed off. He clearly still thinks something is wrong with the executors of the estate and was trying to do what he thought to be right. How the hell do you choose between your children being able to see their loved ones and battling those who are also taking advantage of those loved ones?

I'm spitting mad about this! The estate directly put ALL the children and cousins directly in the line of fire to get what they want. Co-operation and for everyone to shut up and to not question ANY of their actions.

jfkdafjlka. They were going to sell Hayvenhurst right out from under Katherine for gods sake. The ONLY reason they changed their minds was because the fans had a giant fit. They blamed Katherine for doing it but by all accounts she didn't even know it had been put up for sale! She had just wanted renovations done or something. but...yeah, then said 'oh, she had a change of heart'. Change of heart my ass! That house has been the family headquarters for thirty freaking years. I don't believe for one second that Katherine would just decide to sell it on a whim. As if she even had the authority to do so.

I mean, it's these type of things, plus that letter deciding who is and isn't allowed around Katherine/PPB that has me asking what the executor's intentions are.

I get that they are making a shit-ton of money for the estate and improving Michael's image and legacy. Good. That is their job. They also benefit from that. But this other nonsense? What the hell are they doing? Who the hell do they think they are? ugh...Idk. I mean, even if they are trying to keep PPB safe and katherine safe this isn't the way to go about it, y'know? Dictating to her/the kids who they can/can't hire or who is in their home. That goes too far. They are just worried about their own asses and being able to do what they want without interference from anyone me thinks.

ugh, yeah, Jermaine's tweet is kind of heart breaking to me. No matter what they do they get put on blast. Protecting their mother, protecting their brother's legacy, those kids...ugh. I hope now things have sort of died down for them in the press they can have that open dialogue within the family.

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Michelle

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PostSubject: Re: Fans Vs. Fam   Thu Aug 02, 2012 4:53 pm

omertas wrote:

Who the hell does the estate think they are to delegate who does and does not get to see Katherine. Who the hell gives them the moral right to keep grandchildren away from their grandmother!!!!!!!

Alas, it seems like their 'plan' is working since Jermaine backed off. He clearly still thinks something is wrong with the executors of the estate and was trying to do what he thought to be right. How the hell do you choose between your children being able to see their loved ones and battling those who are also taking advantage of those loved ones?

This is how I feel about it. What other reason would the estate have in banning half the family from visiting their own mother? Why was it necessary to ban FAMILIES?! Whole families. That's insane.

Quote :
jfkdafjlka. They were going to sell Hayvenhurst right out from under Katherine for gods sake. The ONLY reason they changed their minds was because the fans had a giant fit. They blamed Katherine for doing it but by all accounts she didn't even know it had been put up for sale! She had just wanted renovations done or something. but...yeah, then said 'oh, she had a change of heart'. Change of heart my ass! That house has been the family headquarters for thirty freaking years. I don't believe for one second that Katherine would just decide to sell it on a whim. As if she even had the authority to do so.
I didn't know about this! I knew that at one point I'd read something about selling the house (and that it was Katherine's idea), but I never followed through with what happened. That's ridiculous!

Quote :
I get that they are making a shit-ton of money for the estate and improving Michael's image and legacy. Good. That is their job. They also benefit from that. But this other nonsense? What the hell are they doing? Who the hell do they think they are? ugh...Idk. I mean, even if they are trying to keep PPB safe and katherine safe this isn't the way to go about it, y'know? Dictating to her/the kids who they can/can't hire or who is in their home. That goes too far. They are just worried about their own asses and being able to do what they want without interference from anyone me thinks.

ugh, yeah, Jermaine's tweet is kind of heart breaking to me. No matter what they do they get put on blast. Protecting their mother, protecting their brother's legacy, those kids...ugh. I hope now things have sort of died down for them in the press they can have that open dialogue within the family.

And just the fact that Katherine is 82 years old. We don't know how much longer she will be with all of us. WHY WHY WHY would you even consider banning her own family members from seeing her?! To me, that's just cruel. Especially for her other grandchildren. No

Jermaine seems to understand that all that went down wasn't handled in the best way by anyone. But I actually believe him when he says that the kids knew Katherine wouldn't be at the house and would be going away (why else wait 8 days to begin tweeting?). Their biggest mistake was not relenting and allowing the kids to just speak to their grandma for at least all of 5 minutes. I understand that she didn't need any additional pressure. But a simple conversation of reassurance would have went a long way.

Then the confrontation at the gate happened (which wasn't as bad as everyone made it seem. TMZ pretty much blew up the entire thing, and later recanted their story. Go figure). I am glad that they are coming to the conclusion that all of this should have been conducted privately from the very beginning. BUT, imo, the estate has went too far with this. They're having a power trip. I believe Michael would FLIP OUT if he knew that the executors banned not only his bros & sisters, but his very own nieces and nephews from his mother!
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PostSubject: Re: Fans Vs. Fam   Fri Aug 03, 2012 5:07 pm

Katherine Jackson’s Court Sworn Declaration

I, Katherine Jackson, declare as follows:

1. The statements contained in this Declaration are based on my personal knowledge and experience. If called as a witness, I could and would testify competently to those facts.

2. On June 25, 2009, my son Michael Jackson passed away. The Will of my late son named me Guardian of the Person and Guardian of the Estate of Michael’s children, my grandchildren, Michael Joseph Jackson, Jr. (Prince), Paris-Michael Katherine Jackson (Paris), and Prince Michael Jackson, II (Blanket). Since their father’s death, my grandchildren have lived with me and been under my care. On August 3, 2009, I was appointed legal Guardian of the Person of Prince, Paris, and Blanket. My Guardianship of my grandchildren has remained consistent and uninterrupted until last Wednesday, July 25, 2012. I understand that at the time and given the circumstances, it was in the best interest of Prince, Paris, and Blanket for the Court to appoint my grandson, TJ Jackson as temporary guardian.

3. On July 15, 2012, I was scheduled to leave on a trip with my nephew in an RV to attend my sons’ concerts in New Mexico, Arizona, Las Vegas, and Southern California. On July 14, 2012, a doctor was brought to my home stating that he had been in contact with my longtime personal physician and was coming to check on me because my personal physician was unavailable. The doctor advised that it was better for me to fly and not drive to New Mexico. Believing that the doctor was sent at the request of my longtime personal physician, I followed what I understood to be the doctor’s orders and boarded a flight as opposed to driving in the motor home. I arrived at a resort in Tucson, Arizona and was told that the doctor further ordered me to rest. Based upon what I believed to be the orders of the office of my longtime personal physician, my phone was taken away. When one of the people with me asked if I could communicate with my iPad and I replied yes, my iPad was also taken away. While here was a telephone in my room, the telephone was not functioning and I could not dial out. In addition, there was not picture on the television in my room. Despite repeated requests to those with me to have it fixed, the television was never fixed. One morning I woke up to the sound of the television. While there was no picture, I heard a broadcast that stated I was missing. I was also ever told that my attorney Perry Sanders, Jr. had flown to Tucson in an attempt to meet with me in person in attempts to find out what was going on. I did not attend my sons’ concerts in New Mexico, Arizona, Las Vegas, and Southern California as originally anticipated.

4. When I asked about Prince, Paris, and Blanket, I was informed by those who I was with that they had been in contact with others concerning the well-being of my grandchildren. I was never informed that Prince, Paris, Blanket and TJ were trying to reach me. Had I known the fact, and if I had been provided with the means to contact Prince, Paris, Blanket and TJ, I would never have gone for such a long period of time without communicating with them. At the time, I trusted the people I was with to be honest with me. While I was away, I had no reason to question whether the people whom I placed trust would inform me that Prince, Paris, and Blanket were trying to reach me. The day before I was brought home from Tucson, I was finally permitted to use the phone to speak with Prince, Paris, Blanket and TJ.

5. Immediately upon leaving Tucson by car, I called my attorney Perry Sanders and informed him that I wanted to meet the next day to discuss what had been happening. That meeting took place the next day as planned and has resulted in this request to seek my reinstatement as Guardian of Prince, Paris and Blanket with my grandson TJ as Co-Guardian.

6. I am, and have been, very close with my grandson TJ and have relied on him to help me raise Prince, Paris, and Blanket since the death of their father. While I was away, I assumed that Prince, Paris, and Blanket would be secure and safe in the hands of the person who had essentially been acting as an informal Co-Guardian on many matters with me since my appointment as Guardian. What I did not realize at the time, is that certain situations could arise which would require TJ to have legal authority over Prince, Paris, and Blanket in order to ensure their safety and welfare. This realization is the reason I support TJ’s continuation as a temporary Co-Guardian and his petition to be appointed as a Co-Guardian now, and to serve alone as Guardian if there ever becomes a time that I can no longer serve with him as Co-Guardian.

7. I am ready to resume my duties as Guardian of my grandchildren Prince, Paris, and Blanket. My grandchildren have also informed me that it is their desire that I resume my role as their legal Guardian. However, I do recognize the need to have TJ legally appointed as a Co-Guardian so that we can work as a team to raise my grandchildren, meet their needs, and attend to their best interests.

8. TJ and I along with Prince, Paris, and Blanket are planning to travel out of California toward the end of August for a family function that will include a celebration involving the memory of my grandchildren’s father, and my son, Michael. It is important that security planning and travel arrangements for the trip be made soon so that the trip can go forward.

9. I agree to the terms of the requested modification to the order currently in place pertaining to the guardianship of Prince, Paris, and Blanket. I believe that such modifications are necessary and in the best interests of my grandchildren Prince, Paris, and Blanket Jackson.

I declare under penalty of perjury under the laws of the State of California that the foregoing is true and correct.

Executed on August 1, 2012 at Calabasas, California.
Katherine Jackson
----

WHO IS THAT DOCTOR? And what was the motivation for all of this? Shocked
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PostSubject: Re: Fans Vs. Fam   Sat Aug 18, 2012 8:31 am

Hey dudes, sorry for letting this thread die a little! But I'm about to revive it with some very interesting info I found out.....looks like we're not the only fans who don't trust the estate and who aren't intent on tearing down the Jacksons. I'm not really into this whole "believe the truth!" angle that a lot fans take - no matter WHAT the issue or what side they're on - but this blog is full of really interesting information, particularly concerning how the Estate and Sony has basically bought the silence of a lot of fan boards (including MJJC, but no surprises there).

Here's the blog post: http://michaelandthetruth.blogspot.com.au/2012/08/mjfam-is-not-for-melist-of-plants-of.html

The author even outlines which fan communities are part of the Estate, which numbers in the dozens. Very, very intriguing. Have a read guys!
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Michelle

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PostSubject: Re: Fans Vs. Fam   Sat Aug 18, 2012 8:20 pm

That blog has a lot that I agree with and a whole lot I don't agree with. She (or he?) is right on the money about the MJ fandom and their hatred for certain people and family members. I'm glad that other people have the insight on just how messed up that is. I also like that she's questioning the Estate (which, in all fairness, I think many of the fans should do.) I also agree that a lot of these fans are highly hypocritical and, occasionally, delusional.

She kinda lost me when going on and on about Debbie (which represents her personal opinion only) and she sort of falls into the trap of absolutism, which sucks. She makes some really good points, yet when you smother all that in "idiots" and other insults, it comes off as childish. This quote:
Quote :
In fact, compared to all of the fan communities of legendary entertainers, the Michael Jackson fan community are the most immature, disturbing and insane community ever.
I mean, this can certainly seem true at times. I get her point. But dude, can you really say out of ALL the fandoms out there, we're the absolute most atrocious?

All that aside, it's interesting what she wrote about the different fan-boards. As a person who has never been on MJJC (and never will, haha!), I can't give an thorough opinion. BUT it would NOT surprise me that they could be influenced by Sony and the Estate. All those fan letters speaking on the fans behalf and the information they always seem to have, including all the exclusives they seem to get = Suspect.

If the Estate wanted to cause derision in the MJ community against the family, I'd say - for the most part - they succeeded. It STILL bothers the heck outta me that these two men can hold power to bar MJ's own relatives from visiting their mother. IDK who they are, no one can make that "right" for me.

I honestly really hate conspiracy theories and all that bull, but ugh...it seems like anything that has to do with MJ is always attached to shadiness. Too many players in this game. If there is any moment where I'd take the "poor Michael" route, it would be in this regard. I can certainly understand why he had trust issues.

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