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 Fans Vs. Fam

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wonderfulworld

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PostSubject: Re: Fans Vs. Fam   Fri Jul 27, 2012 6:28 pm

i can't believe how far some fans are taking this issue. if i was a family member and one of my sibling's fans were acting like he belonged to them, telling me i didn't know my own brother etc i'd feel weird. i'm not taking any sides either because i'm so through with this whole thing. i know the kids may be confused now but think paris needs to be cautious about trusting a bunch of strangers enough to call them family. the first tweet she sent i understood cause she was panicking, but she should lay low a little bit. now i'm not saying all his fans are horrible, i think people are just too emotionally invested and need to take a break and look at what they are saying/thinking.

the race thing is popping up quite a bit and i've never seen a fandom like this in my life. i wish one of the kids would tell them to calm down i feel that is the only way they would listen to anyone.
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Michelle

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PostSubject: Re: Fans Vs. Fam   Fri Jul 27, 2012 6:50 pm

wonderfulworld wrote:
the race thing is popping up quite a bit and i've never seen a fandom like this in my life. i wish one of the kids would tell them to calm down i feel that is the only way they would listen to anyone.
I honestly think this is the case too. The fans (to have them tell it, "true fans") will side with the kids no matter what. They've pledged their allegiance to a 14 year old - all because of their passion for her father. On the face of that, it's quite mental. But you know what, I bet if Paris or Prince resolved their issues with their uncles and aunts, the fans would then just say, "Oh, they've brainwashed the children, obviously!" Rolling Eyes

I really like PPB, and other than their tweets (after the initial concern), I don't find any fault in them. But the fans have taken it entirely too far by tweeting with them in anger over their uncles. And suggesting that we know all about them.

It really seems as if the other siblings wanted to hold off contact with PPB, at least for a little while. Why? I don't know. And maybe for good reason. But who am I decide that it's all about money and kidnapping and drugging? I do think they should have let the kids (and apparently, Marlon) just take a minute to speak with her though. Then maybe everything would have been resolved in a better way. The fact that they are communicating with each other through television shows and twitter boggles my mind.

Idk. But for the first time, it looks like things have calmed down a bit. Well...not for the fans.
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PostSubject: Re: Fans Vs. Fam   Fri Jul 27, 2012 11:26 pm

So, Randy has something to say:

Quote :
1) When TJ asked my mother if he should ask for temporary guardianship, my Mother told TJ NO – twice.

2) The Estate denied Rebbie, Janet and Jermaine access to the house when they returned to home to Calabasas with a letter written by Howard Weitzman, attorney for the Estate, who is not a resident of the home.

3) The Estate is trying to isolate my Mother from her family JUST LIKE THEY DID TO MICHAEL, in order to propagate their lies, financial agendas and to protect a fraudulent will.

4) The same people that are trying to manipulate my mother are the same people that were involved with my brother when he died.

5) In order to obtain temporary guardianship, TJ lied to the court. Rebbie, Janet, Jermaine and I would never harm our mother and we are doing our best to protect her and the Estate knows that. I want to know why Perry Sanders would consider a negotiation based on lies.

6) It is clear that anyone who stands up against the Executors of the Estate - John Branca, John McClain and their attorney Howard Weitzman - is denied access to my mother.

7) It is my fear and belief, that they are trying to take my mother’s life.

I can't comment on this yet because I really need to let it marinate before I speak my mind...BUT I will say this: We've seen fans (particularly on MJJC *ahem*) blathering on about the Jackson siblings drugging Katherine, kidnapping her, even talk of a Jackson sibling conspiracy to KILL MICHAEL.
But when Randy comes out with his thoughts, everyone on MJJC is practically foaming at the mouth with talk like:

"He's certifiable"
"He needs 24/7 psychiatric care"
"He's so negative!"

And just omfg I am losing my mind over here because HELLO HAVE YOU SEEN THE SHIT YOU'VE BEEN SAYING ON MJJC THIS WHOLE WEEK? For fuck's sake. Talk about hypocritical.

Also someone called Janet, Jermaine and Randy's little visit to the Calabasas house a "Gangster attack." Wow, subtle racism much?
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PostSubject: Re: Fans Vs. Fam   Sat Jul 28, 2012 1:32 am

^ Exactly, Amy.

Quote :
If more children stood up for themselves like Paris did, there would be less child abuse in this world.
Neutral

Quote :
She's an icon to her fans. If she jumped off the cliff, bet they would think she was doing something heroic because she made "Control".
....Yet all Michael Jackson fans are perfectly sane. I mean, following 14 year olds on twitter is perfectly normal.

Quote :
Negro-Nazi 'Fans'
I...Wha...I mean...

I'm finished.
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joanwas_quizzical
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PostSubject: Re: Fans Vs. Fam   Sat Jul 28, 2012 1:37 am

^ I'm reading similar shit right now, but on a lower key over at MJJE. It's more like, "Janet will lose fans over this, omg I can't listen to her music anymore!"

As if her music has anything to do with what's happening at the moment. And even so, that comment about her being an "idol"......

HELLO.

ANYBODY HOME MJ FANS.

They're all sitting on twitter bashing the family, putting Michael on a pedastal because omg Michael can do no wrong! Michael is an angel! Michael was the victim in his family! Let's not get angry at Michael, because he wanted to be AWAY from his family! Those darn Jacksons!

I am so fucking done with this "perfect" mentality surrounding Michael. I'm really tempted to make a post on tumblr, but it won't do much in the face of all this Jacksons drama.

Ugh.
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Michelle

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PostSubject: Re: Fans Vs. Fam   Sat Jul 28, 2012 2:10 am

I know Rhea! And I have to keep reminding myself not transfer my frustration over the fans to Michael. This is all THEIR image of Michael. I still think fans feel as if they knew him personally, which is so ridiculous. I don't even have the energy anymore.

Us supposed "Family Defenders" are getting shut down left and right. Just for not participating in the mob-like mentality. Even fans who are critical of the Jacksons, but refuse to bash them are "co-conspirators".

silent
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PostSubject: Re: Fans Vs. Fam   Sat Jul 28, 2012 2:15 am

^ I know, it's just effing ridiculous. I'm staying silent about it on MJJE and tumblr now...sick of arguing with people and I don't want to lose friends over something so goddamn trivial.

You know I've seen some truly awful things being said on twitter coming from the mouths of "respectable" MJJC fans. Things like, "Jermaine has boobs!" (from the Katherine video) and that Janet should go jump off a bridge, just basically really awful stuff that the PRESS used to say about Michael. Like can some fans not see that they've been fighting awful things being said about Mike for years, but then turn around and do the same thing to his family? How is that right? You don't have to agree with the family's actions but God, bringing yourself down to the level of taunting and bullying is not okay.
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PostSubject: Re: Fans Vs. Fam   Sat Jul 28, 2012 5:01 am

Quote :
And I have to keep reminding myself not transfer my frustration over the fans to Michael.

to be honest their behavior has made me a bit tired of Michael. is that weird? i know it's not his fault but even when i listen to his music now or listen to him and his brothers i think of this drama and it just puts me in a bad/annoyed mood.

i guess it's like how you say it's their image of mike and not how he really was. i dont think he'd be cosigning anyone who called his sister a donkey or said his family were on 'malcom x high-horse' complexes. smh.
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PostSubject: Re: Fans Vs. Fam   Sat Jul 28, 2012 8:32 am

God, if that's the sort of thing that these people are saying, then that is hideous.

I don't understand why people have to feel as though they HAVE to dislike the Jacksons just because if they side with them (for want of a better expression), that makes them less of a Michael fan?

To be honest, fans can be gullible to an extent. Just because Michael expressed how he was sick of touring/making albums with his brothers in the 80s, fans take that quote and run with it. And almost thirty years later, they're still convinced that just because Michael apparently "didn't want" that, that this makes the brothers money hungry as$holes.

I'm getting so sick of it to be honest. It's almost like people actually think that the brothers would want to see Michael thrown under a bus, or that they're happy he's dead because now they can get their hands on his money.

It's just so ludicrous that people can be so negative towards others that they don't even know. But this is how so many MJ fans operate -- That Michael can do NO wrong and anyone else are the "bad guys".

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PostSubject: Re: Fans Vs. Fam   Sat Jul 28, 2012 9:04 am

^ It gets worse: Ivy from MJJC and a bunch of others have "replied" to what Randy said today, demanding that he read their information and how they apparently know more than him about his own family.

Like are you fucking kidding me. Here's the link btw - http://www.twitlonger.com/show/ii69sl

And now they've started a trend on twitter of "BrancaMadeMe" because of claims that Branca and the Estate have bought out fans and the communities. Which is actually true, mind you. I used to be a Mod on the MJ forum Maximum Jackson pre-2009, and all the forums were linked to Michael's team back then. The kind of shit you used to hear though, it was scary. Basically MJJC would do ANYTHING to get one step ahead of the rest of the forums. And it's 100 percent true that Branca has wined and dined some of the Mods/Owners of MJJC. Says a lot, doesn't it?

Some choice tweets from these "fans":

Quote :
Randy needs psychological help. Maybe he is schizophrenic?

Quote :
@ParisJackson Please get a restraining order against @randyjackson8. He has a violent past and his recent tweet show he is not of sound mind

Quote :
CHILDREN SHOULD NEVER BE QUIET ABOUT BEING MENTALLY OR PHYSICALLY ABUSED AND THEY SHOULD NEVER BE SPANKED OR DISIPLINED FOR SPEAKING UP.

Quote :
I don't know why it's surprising that Janet isn't a caring aunt anyway. #KMJ

Quote :
King MichaelJ ‏@KingMikeJ
@JJMJallday @princemjjjaxon It's illegal what she has done and now Michael Jackson Jr. has proof. Say goodbye to Janet's career. #KMJ

Like....this is only a SMALL selection of the shit that's going on.
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PostSubject: Re: Fans Vs. Fam   Sat Jul 28, 2012 9:11 am

^^

Oh my god...Just....Oh my god.

I read the reply that MJJC have sent to Randy. It's so embarrassing. Why do these people feel as though they have any right to do this? I'm embarrassed.

And seriously, those tweets are despicable. Do they think Michael would be pleased to see them saying this kind of sh*t about his family? But for some reason, they seem to think that Michael hated his family, and they're carrying on his wishes after his death...

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PostSubject: Re: Fans Vs. Fam   Sat Jul 28, 2012 9:15 am

^ I know, it's just crazy! Like they need to realise that Michael's opinion was biased on his family, just like everyone else's. His thoughts and views weren't the ONLY ones, you know? Everybody went through shit in that family, and he perpetrated some of it. It's like when fans accuse Janet of victimizing herself because she finally spoke up about the verbal abuse Michael flung at her when she was a kid. He can do NO wrong in these fan's eyes. Even when he tells his sister she's a fat cow. How is that okay??

Quote :
to be honest their behavior has made me a bit tired of Michael. is that weird? i know it's not his fault but even when i listen to his music now or listen to him and his brothers i think of this drama and it just puts me in a bad/annoyed mood.

Dude I totally feel you. Except I'm finding that I'm sinking back into his earlier stuff (like Jacksons or OTW) because it just feels safer and....further away from all of this mess, if that makes sense. I just wanna lock myself up in the imagery of innocence LOL.
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PostSubject: Re: Fans Vs. Fam   Sat Jul 28, 2012 9:22 am

It really just goes to show this sort of idolatry has gotten so out of hand. I see it rear it's head every now and again but, this situation really confirms it. And in relation to his own family too, it's just plain disgusting.

There is always a need to blame anyone but Michael in any situation but to see it go so far with his own flesh and blood is so horrible to see. Do these people think they're doing Michael the ultimate service by speaking this way? I would have thought that if they love/worship Michael as much as they appear, that they would know that he HATED this sort of personal crap.

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PostSubject: Re: Fans Vs. Fam   Sat Jul 28, 2012 9:38 am

I've been listening to the Jacksons Live album all week. Definitely helps to keep your mind off all this.
Innocence, indeed!

Michael is a saint to them. And now his children are saints. Its honestly really eerie to worship anyone with that type of intensity. Like, if it takes an extreme hate for you to have an extreme love for the kids - I'd say that isnt "love" at all.

And not to be too critical of Mike (as he realized his mistake and apologized), but when Michael inappropriately held Blanket from that balcony, he got every excuse in the world. But when Janet tries to take a phone from Paris, she's the spawn of Satan. ???

Michael can do no wrong. He's always the victim. His mistakes are easily forgiven. Yet, Jermaine's song from 20 years ago is still the worst thing in the entire world!

I agree Gemma, it's disgusting.
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PostSubject: Re: Fans Vs. Fam   Sat Jul 28, 2012 9:58 am

omg...this turned out super long. do i ever shut up?


and I think I probably repeated some things in here that have already been said just to keep my own train of thought
so sorry that this is like epic proportions, haha.

I have to completely agree. The amount of hypocrisy, double-standards, two-faced, bullying and just mob mentality has just gone through the roof. Y'all see what happened to me on my tumblr the other day (Iknowsomeofyoudid)? jfc, I didn't even side with ANYONE and I was getting attacked, lol. All I was saying is that we don't know anything but some few details...and those are minor. They can be taken in any context you want, in either direction. That there was no need to be such asses or be so biased against or for anyone in this situation until we know more. And that the blatant comments that are defamatory and insinuating criminal conduct towards the family are going a little overboard at this point.
and yep, cosign that Michael is puuuurfect. Janet is evil!!! what even is that crap? EVERYONE in this family, including Michael has fucked up with something in their lives. Not any of them are above mistakes or wrong decisions.

gah.

okay...I'm going to think outloud here for a minute. I'm kind of stewing and don't know where else to purge all that's in my head without people getting all butthurt. As usual, I have some conflicting thoughts going on in my head...and maybe some of you do as well? There is so much info out there and it's all jumbled in my head so bare with me. Some of these are opinions, but a lot is just assumptions/speculations. Some things fact as well...as much as I can assume them to be, y'know? I am in no way very firm on any of this, lol. Just trying to feel my way through some of my thoughts.

and a warning, ya'all know I'm probably going to be skipping around a bit, from one point to the next right? B/C I am, lol.

K...here we go...and lift off...btw I'm also sick of the olympics already okay...just had to put that out there too, haha.

I guess I can't help but expect fans to go after Randy. His tweets have been very specific and to the point. He's stayed out of the 'lime-light' for some time and usually doesn't involve himself too much in family drama though so this is unusual for him to be so vocal, which incidentally makes me want to give him the benefit of the doubt. But he has had some issues in the past where fans don't trust him regarding his actions toward Michael and with money and other things in his personal life (domestic abuse etc..). I suppose it's fair that people are questioning if he is seeking the $ or his motives in-general. However some fans are literally saying that he is Psychotic and legally insane, and he needs to get help for it, smdh. He strikes me more as a very pissed off brother who is extremely worried about his family and the people that are surrounding them. Whether his worry is misguided or not...IDK.

I also can't blame fans for questioning Jermaine's motives. Yeah, he's made some money lately with the tour and his book etc, but he doesn't have the best history of handling his finances either. The whole owing his ex child support comes to mind with Jermaine from a while back. Ditto with Randy and child support too. And sometimes Jermaine has lied about Michael agreeing to deals and contracts in the past. Whether it was that famous Jackson miscommunication...idk. But he's also had some questionable moments in the past, even if his intentions do lean toward the good they always end up being messed up for some reason. I however have never doubted his love for his brother or PPB.

But Janet? I have no real idea why people are questioning her motives or accusing her of being greedy tbh. I mean, how can you call out just Randy & Jermaine? well, I think people are understanding that they can't so Janet is brought into the picture. Now she's also greedy. wth? Don't make no sense to me at all. She just had a tour, she's in movies, she has the whole weight-loss gig and her book is still on shelves. She is NOT hurting for money. She has always avoided family drama and done her own thing. So if money is not her motive then what is? Also some fans give her some shade claiming that she was trying to force Mj into doing concerts before his death and was being manipulative. I've never seen definitive proof of this...only rumors and speculation.

and Rebbie? Ain't no one remembering that she exists, lmao! Nothing unusual there though...shrug.

then there's Tito. He's off the hook though all the sudden? Because he backed out of that letter? Puhlease. Why is he changing his tune so suddenly? Why did he back the letter up to begin with? And I don't think he was after money either. He's had a pretty darn good gig as a musician over the years from what I know. I mean, he may not be making janet or michael type of money, but he isn't starving. Now, I've also heard of rumors that he was hurting for money in the past...refused to pay his kids schooling so that michael had to etc... I don't know, I don't see him as actively seeking a payout though. And I've always in-general just liked the guy (which is really neither here nor there, haha)

Also, in how many of these instances are we just assuming that Michael was forced to pay/give these brother's money? He was a giving person no? Perhaps he OFFERED? Perhaps he knew things like good schooling was expensive and wanted to pay for these things? To my knowledge he wasn't particular about who he helped and he did willingly help other family members and even people who were NOT family members...so, why is it always the family being money hungry?or leeches? I mean, everyone is all "The siblings don't get money, Michael didn't want them too...it's in the will that they don't etc"...BUT when he did give them money it was suddenly not done so with any of his own free will? I'm not trying to argue that they deserve anything from the will, but you also can't deny that Michael had free will when he was around. He could and often did give people money when they needed a little help or whatever.

okay...so those are the people that "kidnapped" Katherine (minus Tito but who was a possible co-conspirator). Drugged her? etc. I'm just not seeing this. It's not adding up. Kidnap elderly mother in order to overthrow the estate and get custody of PPB (?)....or just overthrow the estate in general? Hmm...doesn't make sense. Katherine has no power over the estate. The estate has power over her. She lives in a how owned by the estate with the estate saying when/how she spends the money...putting employees around her that are hired by the estate in some cases. Yes, she gets to live off the estate until she passes, then all her money reverts back to the children. Yes, she has custody of them...but so what. Controlling who has the kids does not necessarily mean controlling the money or the estate at this point in time.

The only thing custody of the children means money wise is that you have 'perks'. Perks such as housing, vacations, transportation (all of these thing will have to be pre-approved btw You don't get to just go on vacay at the drop of the hat most likely or at the guardians whim). Those perks WILL disappear as the children turn 18 one by one, and the amount of $ given will decrease. The longest you would get those perks is eight years due to blanket being ten. BUT even if guardianship goes elsewhere...the money will still have to be accounted for. There are laws on this. The reason Katherine is given so much leeway is because she is also in the will and they legally can't deny her. They can and probably do question how much money she receives btw. Now if TJ the current guardian, asked for more money then he would still have to account for every penny (even though he too is in the will along with his brothers and one/two other nephews/nieces...but I'm sure there are more restrictions in place for them..that's how it usually works). If he did not or could not account for the money then the estate could pull the funds regarding the kids portion (ditto w/ Kat though too). If Katherine loses custody or there is joint custody then the state of California could appoint a 'payee' that decides when/how much he is given and he will STILL have to account for the money with reciepts/invoices etc. AND it actually sounds like this type of situation is set up already through the lawyers between Katherine and the estate. All that money is being watched like a hawk and all of it and where it goes will ALWAYS be monitored by the estate. We ALSO don't know when Prince and/or Paris will be old enough to take over control of the estate (it could be as late as their 30s)..so the kids will probably also have their money situation monitored by the estate until such a time comes where they have authority. We don't know the full details of Michael's will regarding this issue in particular. We just know that it is there because the estate and the court have commented that there is more to the will. We only have the main portion of the will and NONE of it's clauses or the parts referring to the kids or other beneficiaries. Essentially, we have NONE of the details. Mostly because they can't be released due to the minor status of the kids and the legality of the Trusts.

So...yeah, it doesn't really make sense to kidnap Katherine. It doesn't make sense to attempt to get custody of the kids. NOTHING changes the circumstances with money. As far as we know...disregarding the parts of the will that we don't have access to.

Now, also regarding the will. There is the 97 will and the 02 will. Evidently they are IDENTICAL except for the addition of Blanket.

Not gonna lie. This seems weird that another will was NOT drawn up around the time of his trial or thereafter. OR that one wasn't drawn up after Branca was fired that second time for Michael suspecting that he was skimming money and hiding it in off-shore accounts. This seems fishy as all get out tbh. I've always thought so. Not to mention that the signature seems a little off and the whole thing with it being signed in NY and that there was no signature page attached to the one sent to the family. How do you come up with the will so fast, but can't find the signature page? The MOST important part of the will that makes it either valid or invalid. I also don't understand why Michael would NOT change the executors of his will if he thought they were stealing money from him, especially if it was going so far that he was having this lawyer investigated for fraud. The fact that Branca popped up out of nowhere right before Mike died is sketchy as well...but who knows? Michael also was having Joseph attend some of his meetings as well which was obviously not the norm. Michael clearly felt threatened in some sort of capacity. But why? and who or what was he threatened by?

okay, but we only have the 97 and 02 wills right? so what does it matter if the 02 will is or isn't completely valid with a signature? They are EXACTLY the same...so w/e right?

Nope...Everything matters tbh. If the 02 can be or is proved to be fraudulent then the whole thing blows up in the John's faces. I don't have much info on this McClain guy, but Branca makes me concerned enough. Yes, the 97 will would then go into effect BUT do you really think the court is going to allow the Johns to be the executors when they filed a fraudulent will to begin with? lol..nope.

pure speculation here, but I'm guessing the court would appoint independent executors and that the court would retain some of the control... possibly taking the families wishes into account about who to appoint until the children are old enough to take over. But it's HIGHLY unlikely that ANY family member would be appointed to this position or anyone on their payroll. Conflict of interests you see. So how any of the sibling are doing this with money as the motive is beyond me. It doesn't add up to that for me at all.

I mean, I deal with some of this payee/family/guardian bullshit with my clients and it can get crazy. BUT I've literally had to step in to take control of family members taking advantage of my handicapped clients. I've had to call the cops...contact lawyers and the court and payees and the state. It's a complicated thing and the courts do NOT take that shit lightly. Money that is given in trust for minors or people who do not have the mental capacity to understand money is an extremely serious thing with a lot of laws/guidelines/people put in place to make sure that these people are not taken advantage of. The ONLY time I have ever not been able to control a money situation is when my client willingly/wantingly gave money to their sister. I explained the situation, but my client WANTED and UNDERSTOOD that their family was taking advantage, but they did not care at that particular time and didn't want to deal with the headache. I let it go b/c I had no choice and it was only 15 dollars, but I STILL reported it and actions were put in place from this family member ever having access to my clients money in any way. We literally had to file this with the state and get control over my clients money, with the clause that her rights to her money were restricted when this particular family member was around. Otherwise, she had free control of her money. She is not mentally handicapped, but blind. She understands the situation, y'know?.

so yeah, I don't think the siblings are stupid enough to think that there is a possibility of getting money. I mean, if they actively tried to get the money then all of this would be caught up in court proceedings and by the time it even came about the kids would be older and it would be pointless, y'know? so the money scenario just doesn't make sense to me on a bigger picture level.

also, I must give credit where credit is due. I personally think the estate had done a fantastic job with projects. But it also has to be remembered that they personally gain from this. Catch 22 huh?

It also must be mentioned that these two men literally have control of EVERYTHING michael jackson...personally and physically and in name or project. They literally have the power to liquidate his whole estate if they so choose. They can sell his personal items. They can sell his catalogues. They can do as they please with everything and anything and no one can stop them. If they don't want to be executors they have power to appoint different executors. They can reinvest the money if they see fit to do so. As far as what I've seen in what is available for us to see in the will...there is nothing to stop these men from doing whatever they want, how they want, when they want.

It's actually kind of scary and unprecedented how much power they have. I've NEVER heard of executors having THIS much power. OR this much control over a family because of that power. They literally own everything around these people. The kids are kidding themselves if they think they have power, that THEY own anything at this point. They don't.

I have to worry at this point who is in that house and around those children and the rest of the family.

On whose authority was Katherines lawyer denied access to the house/children? To deny her instructions? To ignore her implicit directions? She left that house and it seems to me that no one was worried about it until DAYS later. Paris didn't raise any concern until days later? Why not? Why the sudden panic?

and what's with this trent dude? Why is he filing missing persons reports and why did this instantly blow up into some sort of kidnapping/hostage type thing? He had to of known that Katherine was with her children. Katherine said she left instructions about the kids etc... Why did a trip away to destress turn into this situation? A trip designed to make Katherine feel better.

however, I don't understand the whole no phone thing or why no one let the kids speak to Katherine after the initial blow up of the situation. Doesn't make sense to me either. Also the doctor thing with Metzger doesn't make sense. Why/how does a doctor come in and tell you out of NOWHERE that you need to go to a spa in Arizona and then you just go 'ok'. I can't help but think that Katherine did go willingly and knew what was going down possibly. She seemed to me to be pretty fucking ticked off that her instructions weren't followed and this whole mess got started. And tbh...I kind of have to side eye her 'no phones' thing but at the same time respect it. She is 82 years old and she has been raising this family her whole damn life. Woman deserves a break where all her whole giant ass family can't bug the shit out of her 24-7 y'know? Geesh, can the woman not just take a break for a week or so? evidently not. lord knows my 98 yr old grandmother wouldn't be having nuthing to do with any of this nonsense before she passed. If that woman said "you are living outside in the snow until you know how to wash that damn dish you dirtied" not no one, no how ever gonna gainsay her, lmao. You was going to sit your ass outside in the snow until you did her bidding. Your parents couldn't do shit about it. Woman was fierce! I wasn't even ALLOWED to speak when I was in the same room as her unless she pointedly directed a question at me, hahaha. And my family is big as I mentioned before. Constant chaos and all that, but my elders reserved the right to do as they pleased without having to explain to a bunch of kids, grandkids, nephews etc what they was about.

but i also see the concern...if you are not taking phone calls and getting rest then okay. BUT as soon as this stuff got out of hand then Katherine should have been informed or something should have been done (more on this in a second). I don't know why katherine didn't get her tushie on a plane Monday or Tuesday though. Why did it take her so long to make her statements and get her butt home? Questions galore, lol.

Anyhoo, moving on, which brings me to the tweeting and text messages. UGH...to be 14-15 and think you know the intricacies of all of this. It's complicated for even me to understand. I don't got any qualms with Paris tweeting that she's upset about not speaking to her grandmother in any way or questioning it. She's a smart little girl and I would probably be doing the same thing. However, she was going back and forth with family members and fans and being disrespectful. She was part of the reason why this blew up to the degree that it did and why it got completely out of hand. There are some fans that are toting the 'well, if the family are making statements on twitter than the kids have every right to fire back and tell people they are lying"...But, we still don't know if anyone is lying tbh. we don't know the situation. And a 14 yr old tweeting is a helluva lot different than an adult tweeting.

I have no problem with Janet trying to take her phone either. NO ONE was monitoring that girl at all it seems to me. It was almost as if she was being encouraged to talk smack about some of her family. Whoever was in that house with those kids attributed to this nonsense and it getting out of control as well. Whether it was this trent dude, or auggie or TJ or WHOEVER. Katherine, Janet, Randy, Jermaine are NOT the only ones responsible for this mess.

and it is strange that Janet, randy showed up to take those kids to their grandmother (an attempt at trying to do the right thing and stop the chaos?) and were barred from doing so. I still am wondering why the kids didn't go or if it was just the whole stubborn thing that I talked about before. or them mistrusting some family members over others...idk.

And why did footage from this confrontation even get released? and who did that? Shady. It looks like a giant fight between a normal 14 yr old and an adult who is trying to gain some ground in the situation to me. Everyone says Randy is smiling and laughing in the video. I don't see that. I see two adults recording the actions/words of the other adults around these kids and documenting the chaos of it all.

although i must also point out the obvious flaws in them showing up at the house like that. Why didn't katherine just call the kids? Why didn't Janet/Randy call and tell them they were coming and why they were coming? why just show up out of the blue? or was that purposeful too? smdh..complications.

and wth? Evidently TJ spoke to Katherine, lawyers spoke to Katherine. Everyone knew that she was returning home but Tj did and was encouraged to seek custody still? Why would he do that if she was coming home? Why did the estate encourage this? some family members said Katherine sounded 'off' and 'slurred' but then later retracted this once she was home, saying she does sound fine 'now'. wth? which is it?

Why wasn't Katherine notified that the situation had gotten so out of hand that TJ was filing for temporary custody too?

and ugh...Prince's tweets. And that picture of the group text with Janet asking Rebbie to not let the kids talk to Katherine. Why is everyone instantly jumping on Janet's ass about it? I mean, I guess I DO understand because at first glance and thought it does look shady and confusing.

BUT...we still don't even know why she would do that? She and the other siblings have got to have a good answer for it? right? What else was said in that group conversation? What was the context of that situation? It evidently took place after Janet/Randy went to the house and were kicked out.

and ugh...the media reporting that Janet slapped Paris and they were swearing at each other. Paris denied this for crying out loud, why is the media and fans still dragging this around as if it's factual?

idk..and Katherines health seems to be under scrutiny here too. She does seem the worse for wear, but she is 82 years old and has had a mini-stroke in the past. Her health could be part of this equation for sure. I don't buy for one minute that she was held hostage, lol. Some fans are siting that video of her and the kids as proof of this. I see an old woman who is tired, and just plain getting old...with possible health issues. I mean, just because she was reading from a notepad does not mean that she was unaware of what she was saying. Hell, she kept leaving her 'script' and going off on her own little tangent all Katherine style like she usually does then would catch herself and refer back to her notes. Sometimes with the siblings helping her fine her place. This does not seem anything unusual to me in a stressful situation like that. Ugh, the woman had learned that she lost custody of Michael's vulnerable children! I'm guessing she was beside herself in that interview AND when she was on the phone with her family to tell them to not have TJ take custody. Gee..perhaps that's why she didn't sound 'fine' or like her normal self...jfc.

okay..so yeah..I don't even know where I'm going with all this. I don't really know who to believe or what to believe. All parties have done some messed up things in this chaos. And I guess Katherine is now willing to share custody with TJ? Does this mean she thinks or that other people are putting in her ear that she won't regain custody of PPB? I mean, I have no problem with TJ. He seems like an okay guy and Michael seemed to adore all three of Tito's kids just as if they were his own. Perhaps this is the best solution for now?

wow, I also hear that the judge has appointed an independent investigator to speak to the children about this whole mess to get to the bottom of it. Just a hunch, but I'm going to guess that this investigator is going to speak to all the adults involved too.

ugh, this damn family! lmao. see, I'm not sure what to think about anything. I don't necessarily think ANY of the family members wish to cause harm or complications with PPB. That the thing. I do think they are attempting to protect them. That they are also trying to protect Michael's estate for the children's future. The fact that the estate is so embroiled and ingrained in this families business and house is odd to me. To the point where these business associates are getting involved in family stuff and are AT the house all the time? It's weird. What actual business do they have there? Why are bodyguards reporting family disputes to estate lawyers? why are videos being leaked? Why the sudden storm against the Jacksons in the media? and in the fandom?

I don't know, I could be completely off the mark here. I could be utterly wrong and all these family members are after PPB and custody and control of the estate...but idk..that seems too easy of an explanation for me, ya'know?

It's just soo weird having all these fans stick up for the executives of the estate when not to long ago all the fandom wanted was that they were fired. This fandom is a fickle bunch.

and why such hate for Michael's family? I mean, it is real hate. To the point of loathing and saying anything about them that makes them seem like the most evil people on earth. And blaming them for michael's death. seriously? really?

Despite everything, Michael always talked about his love for family and his forgiveness for any wrongs that were done to him. For the love of god, he was even less harsh towards his father in his later life.

As Prince said, he very well may have been cautious of certain family members ways, but ugh...family is family is family is family. Love for your family is unconditional. They hurt you the most but they love you the most as well.

I don't know. I obviously think we are missing some very important pieces to this whole puzzle.

and for all we know, the will very could be legit and michael had a change of heart about Branca. It's not like it hadn't happened before with Branca or even other people. Mike knew how to hold a grudge like no other, but he also could forgive when he was in the wrong.

ugh..anyone have anything thing else to add to this mess that I might of missed? or any other point of view to ponder over? or anything I missed that I completely forgot to address?

I feel like this is the only place that approaches rational and logical thinking regarding this whole mess. And everyone here has good points from both view points as well. I'm under the assumption that pretty much none of this will get solved without this family bridging their divide. I hope it happens sooner rather than later b/c this fandom is turning into a cesspool of muck.

and omg Rhea, it doesn't surprise me that the Estate is courting fansites to improve their position with the fans and to gain their allegiance through merchandise and those wonderful perks that they are know to hand out.

also, I will never understand nor think it's okay to involve myself in this family's business directly. Omg...that fraking twitlonger. How much nerve and gumption that takes!

Again, it's one thing to sit here and hash out assumptions and facts and the what if's...but to go so far as to directly involve yourself and actually think you have the place to say something to this family...no. That just...no.

this fandom is crazy. Randy isn't, nor katherine, nor this family (ok..a little bit they are, lmao). They have real and important things at stake in this...but wow, this fandom. Mike is gone. We have his music. He already gave himself to us in so many ways. And now I feel like this fandom wants his children too. They want to get their greedy hands on those kids and on everything that Michael kept from us or didn't want out there for mass consumption.

So many people speak of him and claim to have thought of him as a human being, but I'm not so sure about that.
I'm kind of left with this icky feeling in my stomach towards the whole family for letting this mess happen, the estate for stirring the pot and accusing family members of being money hungry, and the fans for their foolery.

sigh...this sucks.



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PostSubject: Re: Fans Vs. Fam   Sat Jul 28, 2012 3:03 pm

Omertas I need to reply to your amazing post that pretty much sums up my entire thoughts on the matter, but I need to post this real quick. This is some fuckery happening on MJJE right now:

Quote :
Yeah, Cat, but what you don't seem to understand (and neither do I) is that we shouldn't take Michael's words as the truth and we should find excuses for every Jackson family member each time they f*ck up. Joe didn't beat his son, he only punished him like supposedly every parent did back in the days, Jermaine didn't envy his brother, he only wrote that song because they had a silly fight and LaToya made those statements about her brother because she was forced into it as if her husband was pointing a gun to her head that very moment. We shouldn't even bother thinking that she actually had plenty of opportunities to escape (and yes, I did read her books).

So ... Cat, if we don't find excuses for the Jacksons in all these situations, we're not true fans. If we question their actions, we're not supporting the family and we're judging them. Well, I am judging them. Michael forgave them and who am I to be hating on them? But I do have the right to judge them and I definitely don't trust them when I see how they're handling things. If they want their brother's fans' support and understanding, then they should deal with their problems in private with grace like Michael did. This is what makes him better than them. Plus, he may have forgiven them, but he didn't forget. Why else did he want Diana to be his kids' legal guardian if Katherine wasn't able to? Because he trusted his brothers and sisters so much?

I am literally steaming at the ears over here. So many fucking things wrong with this.
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PostSubject: Re: Fans Vs. Fam   Sat Jul 28, 2012 3:06 pm

^^

I have gone to reply to this about four times, but I just don't know if I have the strength...Nor the way with words that some others have so I just can't be bothered. Someone who has more brain cells than me, please go right ahead.

To be honest, I feel as though MJJE needs two threads for this whole fiasco -- One for those who want to remain neutral on the whole subject...And one for those who believe that the Jacksons are evil and are out to get money.

So f*cking mad right now (which is probably attributed to other things going on in my life over the past few hours so I'm on a real high horse right now) and I feel as though I need a glass of wine (or seven)....

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PostSubject: Re: Fans Vs. Fam   Sat Jul 28, 2012 3:12 pm

Gemma your replies so far in that thread tonight are so fucking flawless and on point, like I just want to hug you because you manage to say everything I'm thinking but in such a calm and the the point manner.

This girl is an idiot, don't even bother with her. And Chamone just loves to play Devil's Advocate because nobody can come after her due to her being a Mod. It's just a power play in that thread.
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PostSubject: Re: Fans Vs. Fam   Sat Jul 28, 2012 3:15 pm

^^

Well, thanks for saying so...I'm always worried that people might read my posts and just be like "Oh please, this girl doesn't know what she's talking about."

In regards to what's going on over there -- I just hate the board politics sometimes. She and Cat are good friends so there's clearly going to be some serious bias going on there. If it were anyone else, I would be tempted to report that post just because of the condescending attitude, insinuating what is/isn't a fan, complete with 'eye-rolling' smilies.

Oh yay, SC is on MTV. Finally, something good!

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PostSubject: Re: Fans Vs. Fam   Sat Jul 28, 2012 3:17 pm

^ I'm gonna report the post anyway because her attitude is seriously off and needs to be dealt with. Me, you and Chamone were having a completely decent conversation about the whole thing and she just came in and derailed the entire thread. UGH.

MJJE is seriously biased and it's so....constrictive. I feel like I can't say anything over there or show any emotion, less I upset someone.

Edit: Love Chamone's little snarky comment about her moving the thread to the Controversial Section when she KNOWS she kicked me out of there and I can't see it. Fuck that.
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PostSubject: Re: Fans Vs. Fam   Sat Jul 28, 2012 3:21 pm

To be honest, she's probably still bitter about the racism stuff that happened back in the Survivor game. Get the f*ck over it, says I.

I seriously just hate that type of attitude. Why does it need to be said so rudely? Why is there a need to show that you think I'm (or anyone else) is a piece of sh*t on the ground and that my opinion isn't valid? I f*cking hate it....And then dedication to the fandom gets called into question? No way. Just don't go there. I'm a Michael fan, not a Michael worshipper.

Ugh, just.....seriously. I'm so over this crap now. Why do people find it so easy to judge others and their actions that don't really concern them?

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PostSubject: Re: Fans Vs. Fam   Sat Jul 28, 2012 3:25 pm

But that's exactly it,isn't it? They just LOVE to stomp all over us and be high and mighty, because it's THEM that think they're the better fans and that WE should be questioned. But they'll victimize themselves no matter what. I am so done with that attitude from some fans. I reported her btw, I bet they won't do anything but I'm tempted to send her a message as well just to tell her that I can see through her shit.

Does anybody else feel like they're at the end of their tether here? I feel like doing something really drastic, I really do.
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PostSubject: Re: Fans Vs. Fam   Sat Jul 28, 2012 3:28 pm

That's what I hate too. It's the whole 'I'm better than you' attitude that I hate. It's very common, unfortunately.

I've always locked horns with her (sort of anyway, at least on the periphery), and because she's close with the mods, I feel like she's always got the edge. Such a sh*tty situation.

And when you say drastic....you mean?....

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PostSubject: Re: Fans Vs. Fam   Sat Jul 28, 2012 3:31 pm

To be honest I don't remember seeing her around much before, but you're more into the scene than I am and I wasn't all that active on MJJB back in the day. But I see she's from Europe and I do notice that a lot of the European fans carry that same attitude - and particularly holding Michael in this "God" imagery. Just seems to be more intense over that way.

Drastic....ugh I don't know I'm just so damn mad right now haha! I probably won't do anything and I'll sleep it off, but I'm tired of being pushed around by other fans and spat all over because I view things in a different light. I'm also fuming because that abuse thing hit a little too close to home...I cannot STAND people that say "oh you could've escaped". That's not how it works!!!

Edit: Couldn't help myself, I snooped around her profile. These are some of the "groups" she belongs to:

- Michael's Angels (Praying for Justice)
- Michael and Lisa; a marriage not 2B
- Loving the Dangerous era
- Badly in love with BAD
- MJ's History Lovers

Yup, I have a pretty good view of what type of fan she is now and that I should avoid her at all costs.

Edit again: It gets even more disturbing. This is what she wrote in the "Random MJ Thoughts" thread -

"Thank you for loving me ... for being my eyes when I couldn't see ... for parting my lips when I couldn't breathe "

:/
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PostSubject: Re: Fans Vs. Fam   Sat Jul 28, 2012 3:38 pm

Yeah, she does happen to be one of those people who likes to see Michael as an angel...But of course, he's a freak in bed. Need I remind you of the posts in the 'Sex In Fan Fiction' thread? Underage girls etc?

I get what you mean about the abuse thing...I have seen abuse situations up close (though certainly not as extreme as La Toya's) and I always sympathised with her. I can't imagine what it must have been like to be in her position and I will never hold it against her for the things she said back in 1993. And people still give her a hard time...

By the way -- what would you answer to people when they say things like "Michael clearly didn't trust his siblings in any way, because he left them nothing in his will, nor did he award them with custody...Instead he chose Diana Ross to be guardian if Katherine wasn't up to it..."

I'm just flailing with possible reasons, that's all! It's not that I don't think he didn't trust them, I just wonder about what the dynamics were there...It's not like he even put Janet's name down or anything...Or do you think he was trying to keep her out of it too? ie. He didn't want her to be resented because she WAS left something?...

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