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 Fans Vs. Fam

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hprox

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PostSubject: Re: Fans Vs. Fam   Mon Jul 23, 2012 10:39 am

^^

Awesome! I'd love to be a part of it, so it would be great if we could get something organised!

I think the situation with Paris tweeting is tricky, because I totally understand that she's acted out of concern and I'm sure she didn't mean to cause any harm. But the problem is these days, is that by talking about this stuff on twitter means that she's going to get a LOT of attention for it. I don't want to criticize her but it's more just that I think she needs to learn a little bit about what she posts on twitter...In general, she posts a lot of stuff on there, which is fine, but she also needs to understand that there are people out there who are always going to bring her down or attack her or the family because of it. As long as she's prepared for the consequences, that's all...

I'm still confused as to why she hasn't gotten in touch with any of the kids, since it's obvious they're worried about her...So I'll be interested to see what the explanation is.

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PostSubject: Re: Fans Vs. Fam   Mon Jul 23, 2012 5:01 pm

I know. Seems to me as if someone decided not to tell the children about their grandmother's health - and maybe for good reason as sometimes adults don't want to stress kids out. But it looked like it sorta backfired. They should have told them that she'd be away for some time and give her location, at the very least. I don't get that part at all! But the bottom line is that she is okay and hopefully will be in touch with her grand-babies soon.

Edit: Apparently, Paris is doing a-okay today and (reportedly) attended her uncles show? Neutral O-K. This really seems like half of the fam knew where Kat was and the other half didn't. It is odd that the grandchildren (or it seems Paris) didn't know, but apparently, she's content now. Again, not to fault Paris or anything. I just think their should have been more person-to-person contact before going on twitter. Looks like everything's good now.

I come from a huge family and my grandmother is 82. Whenever (and I mean every.single.time) my granny is not by her phone at her house for more than an hour, everyone in the family starts calling everybody else, trying to find out where she is. This is different because Paris said she hadn't talked to her grandma in 5 days (very odd). But still, I can see how the confusion may have started.

As for the conspiracy theorists (even now that we know Mrs. Katherine is safe - because, that was everyone's main concern, of course):

Paris has become an ambassador, rightly taking her place next to King Michael's throne:
Quote :
Amen! Amen! Amen! There is no excuse the Jackson defenders can give or the Jacksons themselves that could explain why they did this. Of course, it is very obvious to the aware and knowledgeable WHY they pulled this stunt. The Jackson clan wanted to get her out of town so that they coud do damage control with being exposed by Paris' insistence that her grandmother had NOT had a stroke. If this little girl had not been so insistent and caring about her grandmother, these vultures would still be perpetuating this lie. THANK YOU PARIS FOR YOUR BRAVERY, CONCERN, INSISTENCE FOR THE TRUTH AND NOT GIVING UP! YOU ARE A SOURCE OF PRIDE FOR YOUR FATHER, YOUR SIBLINGS AND MICHAEL JACKSON FANS AROUND THE WORLD!!

MJ Family Defenders are the bane of all existence (and apparently, MJ's "fans" are just as important as MJ's kids - both of whom the family hate):
Quote :
I am so sick of the lame-ass excuses from people who defend this family, ESPECIALLY in this situation. There are no excuses for what this family has done to these kids and to MJ fans arouind the world who were worried sick about Michael's mother and the kids grandmother. To sit around and just act as if these people have not tried to PLAY the public is downright insulting to people's intelligence.


Randy is the ring-leader conspirator:
Quote :
They may have spent three years b!tching about it, but when KJ stopped contesting Branca and company from being the executors for that same reason in 2009, that was the end of the contesting. If Randy, who I find is the main person complaining about that will had something, he would have pulled the trigger on that by now. In any case, MJ siblings can't do anything to get their hands on that money. This has probably more to do with the estate siding with AEG in that wrongful death suit. All that other stuff in that letter about the will was pointless.

Quote :
This is all because Randy Jackson knows they are not getting one dime from AEG.. AEG is grilling the hell out of Katherine which is expected especially since she is blaming them for killing her son. Now they are reversing the questions and asking her questions which she believes are labeling her at fault for MJ's demise. I believe she doesn't like the questions she is being asked during her deposition so she wanted out of that deposition. Randy must have thought that AEG would just roll over and hand out millions because Katherine is old, but nope, they are playing hardball and Randy is pissed.


The inevitable happening of Alzheimers will soon make its appearance:
Quote :
It's only the beginning of a new mess. Soon, we'll "find out" about Katherine Alzheimer and how is she unable to take care of Michael's minors. Soooo? Problem solved!

Apparently, MJ's fam don't think his kids are his kids and need to hurry up and grow so they can be freed from their slave masters:
Quote :
That statement was pathetic. I notice Jermaine made a point of saying "mother" "daughter" and "sons" yet Prince,Paris and Blanket were just "Michael's children". The whole statement was callous to MJ's children imo.

Quote :
They don't consider them their blood. Just saying.

Quote :
They've just covering their asses. I'm very proud of Paris for being so strong, so early. Just wish the kids were over 18, and could take Blanket with them. Hopefully, time will pass soon, and the mere fact that the kids aren't going to lie/cover up for them like others have in the past, keep some of their schemes at bay.


Quote :
"Talking to" or not, Paris outed them and their schemes...damage done, police envolved. You can try to take away cell phones, etc, but its easy for kids to find others. The Jacksons need to lay low and stop trying to b.s. the public, or continue to face being outed. The "kids" will be adults in just a few years, and if they are already bucking them now, they'll have no chance in just a couple of years to continue their crap.

They could even try for emancipated minor status now, which will make the Jacksons look even worse.

Haha! AND THEN, when Paris starts tweeting pictures from (apparently) attending her uncle's show:

Quote :
Why is Paris tweeting about ''the show'' and other subjects?! She seems totally fine now and hasn't addressed anything about her grandmother.....

Quote :
She also posted Instagram pictures, that doesn't mean anything. Questions still unanswered. And maybe now that there's contact with the police they're solving their family problems privately again.

Quote :
I think she's getting hell for voicing her opinions.
She's still a 14 year old girl who can get grounded.

Quote :
Paris has had a "talking to" it's obvious.
Haha! It's "obvious" Laughing

Ooh, a NEW theory!!! Paris the "loon" strategy.
Quote :
Well, I do not know who mentioned Paris' mental health, but actually this morning thinking through all of this I also thought making Paris look like a loony is another option for them. It's silly and sick, but I've seen too much happening already. And MJ was considered a loon, too, even though many times I thought he was the only sane person around, because he reacted adequately to a lot of bullshit. If all that had happened to you you'd react just like he did. And IMO Paris reacted compeletely adequately, but there will be people who won't think so.

And a PSA to us MJ Fam defenders and Debbie Rowe:
Quote :
This is still inexcusable. What happened to those kids was mental and emotional anguish. Playing cards? Really?

While the fanbase and the world and your grandchildren you have legal custody of are worried sick? This does call into play her ability to care for those kids. They may not be beaten physically or starved or cold and wet, but this is not caring loving support either.

Debbie, wake up honey. Your kids are already in trouble. You're sitting back letting it happen. Anybody that can needs to step and demand custody now. The disregard and resentment of those kids are being shown openly now. Michael would want someone to step in and fight for his kids.

By the way, to the Jackson family asskissers, Trent had every right to file a police report. Katherine is more than a grandmother, she is the legal guardian of those kids and she was unreachable to them. What if one of them had to go the hospital for emergency medical treatment? Katherine is the one with the rights to sign off on that. She is in effect, by law, their parent now. What parent is ever unreachable to their kids? I'm certainly not. Trent is also her caretaker(why does Katherine need a caretaker? so when she couldn't be reached, he was understandbly concerned and scared.

Just from two pages at KOP, folks. I'm sorry to say...these fans are sick. I believe I will be terminating my membership pretty soon. Thanks girls (and guys)...for being, at the very least, sane.

EDIT: Sorry to bombard you guys with this foolery - but THIS is INSANE. They are starting to make this out of a racial issue and I am NOT cool with that:

Quote :
That's what I keep saying. I don't think some of the brothers and sisters think of the kids as family. They don't care for their own young or put their own kids first, why would they put their brothers kids first?

I also think there is another element here. I honestly believe that some brothers don't think the kids are biologically Jacksons either.

Forum rules dictate that a conversation about the biological make up of MJs kids is strictly banned so I don't want anyone to take my comment and turn it in to a long conversation regarding the matter but my opinion is that some brothers don't believe they are related. As a result they resent them more because they believe the brothers are more entitled to the money from the will than three kids. Oh they will use those kids and take them concerts and have them sign some crappy merchandise because of WHO they are and who their father is, but behind closed doors, they resent the kids, don't consider them "family", and as we have seen in the last few days, they have time and time again said things to try and paint Paris as being an over dramatic liar who's fears and concerns mean nothing to the "family".

The sooner they come and out and actually SAY that they don't believe the kids are biologically his and shouldn't have that money because they ain't blood, the quicker everyone can get the wheels moving in protecting the kids and their assets and interests further.

Quote :
The thing is, it doesn't even matter. For inheritance and support purposes, the law looks at legalities. He is their legal father, two of them were born of a marriage, his name is on their birth certificates, he is their legal father and that's what the law cares about.

The biology conversation is moot. They will get everything he has because the law says so. The siblings are as dumb as ever. I think they do think that way which I find very interesting because the Jacksons themselves are known for getting involved and marrying anybody but African- Americans. There is a popular conception amongst some Blacks that this family doesn't even care to deal with other Black people, Janet's the same. So why they want to get on their Malcolm X high horse and resent Michael's kids because they don't look Black, is another example of their stupidity and hypocrisy.

WWWWTTTTTFFFFFFFF????? So, let me get this straight. The family dislike that the kids aren't black (or don't look black) and so they feel that since they are black, they are entitled to MJ's money? And they supposedly are sitting on their "Malcolm X" high-horse? And there is a "popular conception" that they, as black people, don't like to deal with other "black people"?

If this ain't some racist sh*t, I don't know what is. And this has been in the back of my mind all along. Some of these fans think this "black family" can't take care of these kids, who in their mind I guess, represent something better. This is ridiculous!
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PostSubject: Re: Fans Vs. Fam   Mon Jul 23, 2012 6:22 pm

JFC, though! This is/was a mess!

Yep, Paris attended the brother's concert last night and was seen there dancing and whooping it up.
This whole thing is soooooooooooo crazy.



I get that Paris got concerned and all, but i have to wonder why she suddenly was concerned and decided to start tweeting(?)...y'know...after a week. She had to of known that Kat was with family and it was alluded that she talked to other family members, but didn't talk to Katherine herself.

It honestly makes me wonder what kind of people/hanger's on that surround that family, and if some of these other family members/hanger's on/employees who aren't in the know intentionally or unintentionally caused Paris to panic. Too many people wanting to control the situation and information getting crossed up. The siblings never once wavered about the situation and still haven't. Katherine is in Arizona resting with family members. She has also personally let the authorities know that she is fine. I don't get why this nephew (Trent) and other people caused such a ruckus when Katherine left with her own children. This doesn't make sense to me. But then again...it doesn't seem like any of Katherine's 'inside' people knew quite what was going on. Perhaps they weren't too happy with that? Which also makes me wonder if there is something to what was written in the siblings recent press statement to the estate? pure speculation of-course, but ya gotta wonder. *shrug*

As for Paris tweeting. I'm on both sides of the fence about it. I usually reserve judgement on stuff like this, but geesh, her tweets definitely stirred up drama and got the fans all nutty. This was family stuff and a sensitive situation. I'm on the side that says the girl needs to learn not to go there in such a public forum, but I also can't blame her because she was worried and probably pissed that she didn't know/understand what was/is going on. It sucks to be that age where adults consider you too young and try to keep you out of grown-up stuff (I'm assuming that this was part of the reason she didn't know?), but you know damn well something is afoot. I'm thinking and assuming it was this type of situation. And we all know that girl got a strong head, lmao. And gah, it also kind of makes me be proud of her at the same time that it makes me just want to strangle her, lol. She don't suffer no fools, that's for sure. She is going to be one to reckon with in the future. Ya would also think that the family would figure out to just be straight with her by now too, smdh.

So yet again, I'm putting this one down to mis-communication and foolery. And/but it does make me wonder if something is going on in addition to Kat just getting some rest. Then again...maybe it really is as simple as all that. They took her to have a mini-vacay knowing that she wouldn't do so herself. She's not exactly the kind of woman to turn other's away or tell them to get lost when she needs a break. I mean, do y'all remember the behind the scenes stuff from Oprah? There were people all up in Hayvenhurst! Everybody and their cousin, plus their hairstylist and manager was there! Just b/c Mike's parents and children were going to be on camera.

Sometime someone just got to take the initiative and perhaps that's exactly what the siblings did, lol.

and lmao, I come from a large family too. Sometime no one is on the same page! My dad's birthday was Saturday and I didn't even know what the plans were until about 4pm! I mean, that's just a large family for you, hahaha. I have another family member I ran into and was all like "OMG...YOU"RE PREGNANT???!!!!!" and yep...8 months pregnant and I just found out. Last summer I went to a wedding and ended up meeting a cousin I have NEVER even heard of. We were chatting at the reception and then it just clicked that I recognized the names of everyone she was telling me about. I'm all like "wait a second...you're aunt sandy's kid?" last time I checked this 19 yr old didn't EXIST! Sometimes that just how it is with big families. I'm not gonna be keeping track of every single one of my 70+ cousins. or my 10+ aunts/uncles and their families. I don't got time for that! and then you add on the great aunts/uncles and their families....oh lordy, raise the cousin count to 200+ and the aunts/uncles to 35+. No thanks, lmao. I don't even have the time to count! and the drama that can exist just based on the amount of people and the different personalities. ugh. ;P

As per usual, things got totally blown out of proportion due to the recent press statements concerning the estate and no one being in sync.

I don't normally get all up in arms with the family's hijinks and what they be doing, but when you got headlines of 'Katherine Jackson MISSING'...ugh, it makes your heart stop for a minute.

Idk, I'm just really curious where all this is going and leading up to (if anything *sigh*). Like a lot of you I'm done sick of some of these fans going apeshit and attacking the family members...and the children (wtf? for real though!!!!!!) More often than not, there is usually a motive or an explanation for what the family does and how they do it. It's all about patience. This family has ALWAYS played their cards close to their chest. They've been burned too many times in the past to just freely let their guard down. They've been screwed over legally and bullied by the press and the public. They have been taken advantage of repeatedly and then been blamed for it. Therefore they don't play by anyone's rules but their own now. And more often than not...they be right on the money about things.

so yeah, I get soooo sick of people bringing up crap that happened twenty years ago, such as Jermaine's "word to the badd". It's ridiculous! and in that situation...I'm gonna go there....Mike was kind of an ass (nope...he was...no question). He stole Maine's producers/writers! Right out from under him! The dude MOVED to atlanta to record and waited around for these people to be free only to find out they were in L.A. recording with his damn brother. I'd be pissed! and rightfully so. Maine recorded that song when he was pissed and hurt and it wasn't suppose to see the light of day! It was stolen and put on the radio. Imagine letting your frustration towards a family member being displayed before the whole world. Not fun.

I'm sick of fan's thinking some of these situations are very black and white. That Michael didn't do shit wrong. That there is ONLY michael's side to stuff. People pass judgement on this family without taking the time to think and reflecting on things. God forbid this family be human, with internal family problems and that they ACT like a family, lol.

Idek, this has turned into a rant, hahah. But I'm just sick unto death of the disgusting and often irrational and sometimes blatantly defamatory remarks these fans make. They are completely out of line and unnecessary. Some go so far and soooo off point that they don't even make SENSE to me. That is how warped they are.

I mean, yeah, I can sit here and speculate and wonder, but I'm not about to go on twitter and attack these family members. I'm not about to sit here and act like I know what is going on inside their home and inside their lives. I know and understand that I'm just speculating. Some fans just act like they have every right to tell this family what to do and how to do it. As if THEY are actually his real family and have an actual say in what goes on. As if they shared a damn bunkbed in Gary, Indiana with them boys and fought over the last chicken leg at dinner! As if they talk to Kat over coffee at her kitchen counter.



Grrr, yeah. I'm sick of people being stupid and throwing around accusations without any by your leave. I'm also sick of fanforums acting like they speak for the whole fandom (wtf was that fan statement anyway? jfc) and trying to control what fans can and cannot speak of, and determining HOW fans can speak on subjects. I'm also sick of the estate supporting such forums. Gee...wonder why they do though????

I don't know much about much, but I do know that things aren't right. I've honestly never seen this type of dissension in the fandom ever. I've never seen it so divided or seen people act so vulgar. It's disappointing and shameful. It's one thing to disagree or dislike one/several of the jackson's, but people have really just lost their marbles over things. And I honestly can't help but think that Michael would truly be disappointed in his fans for the things they are saying about his family, especially his mother and children.

This all makes me want to retreat back into anonymity where I used to be. I don't like that people may see my name and think 'oh...crazy MJ fan'. And to have other fan's judge you over whether you support 'the family' or 'the estate' is ridiculous.

I'm a Michael Jackson fan. I support his memory and what he was to the world. And all this non-sense about picking sides and slandering his family? It does nothing but undermine his memory and what he was about. It's sad.

I just can't with all those quotes. It makes me feel ill.


sigh, I could go on and on with this rant but w/e. I'm done for now.
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PostSubject: Re: Fans Vs. Fam   Mon Jul 23, 2012 8:32 pm

What. A. Mess.
That's all I can say. Some fans have truly shocked me with their judgments and conspiracy theories. And making it into a racial issue? What the FUCK? "Malcom X High Horse"?? I about vomited when I read that.

I can't help but think that a lot of these fans use Paris (or their concern for Paris) as a smoke-screen to allow them to hurl hate and unfounded slander at the family. Which is why I believe that if Paris hadn't tweeted and added to that sense of extreme urgency, the reaction in the fanbase wouldn't have been quite so...extreme. These people want to hate the Jacksons and the moment Paris jumped into the fray, it gave a lot of them an excuse to go into full attack and conspiracy mode, hiding behind their concern for Paris and their love for Michael (because somehow these kids are the new Michael to these people).
Again, that's not to criticize Paris for tweeting...I fully understand why she would. But still. Just an observation.
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PostSubject: Re: Fans Vs. Fam   Mon Jul 23, 2012 9:21 pm

Agreed. The fans have taken Paris' tweets and created a narrative of their own. Not totally her fault - but they've still taken it and made their hate fit around it.

I'm even wondering whether Paris knew of her family's whereabouts, but somehow Trent didn't and started saying stuff around the kids (i.e. "she's missing") - which in turn caused Paris to panic and believe that her grandmother was not where she said she would be. ???

Whew! I'm just glad that Mrs. J is fine and that the kids seem straight. If anything, I hope the Jacksons can work a bit better on communication. (But then again, family is family. Haha! My family is never on one accord! Laughing )

And I agree Omertas, Michael wouldn't like none of this. But I'd think he'd be particularly upset by his so-called army of love. And I'm honestly done with at least two different MJ forums. Seems like I'll only be hanging around MJJE (on occasion) and here. Me love here. I love you Lmao!

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PostSubject: Re: Fans Vs. Fam   Tue Jul 24, 2012 2:03 am

Hey guys, I gotta dash off to work so I don't have to time to make a post, but I thought you should see this if you haven't already:



:/
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PostSubject: Re: Fans Vs. Fam   Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:34 am

Okay for some reason I kept getting alerts today for new replies to this thread but there's nothing here! Hope it isn't a bug or anything....

Next thing, did you guys read this?

Quote :
Michael Jackson’s Siblings Barred From Mom’s House After Attempting to Remove His Kids

Jermaine, Randy and Janet Jackson have been barred from their mother Katherine’s Calabasas home after attempting to remove their brother Michael’s three children from the house on Monday, RadarOnline.com is exclusively reporting.

The situation adds to the ongoing drama with the Jackson family, as Katherine has been in Arizona for more than a week and hasn’t spoken to her grandchildren, of whom she is the legal guardian. “It was just total chaos when Jermaine, Randy and Janet descended on the house.

“Randy was telling Prince Michael he had to leave with them and that he had a private jet chartered to take them all to Arizona to see Katherine. Prince firmly held his ground and told Randy he wasn’t going anywhere with them. The security detail prevented the three of them from taking the kids out of state. The cops had to be called and Janet kept saying they had a legal right to be at the house when in fact they don’t. The rental house is in the name of Michael Jackson’s estate, so they were told to leave immediately. For the time being, they won’t be allowed to come back to the rental house and guards at the security gate have been told under no cir***stances are they to allow them in. Paris was absolutely hysterical and kept telling her uncles to just bring her grandmother home,” a source close to the situation tells RadarOnline.com.

“The plan to take the kids out of the house was going to be a publicity stunt. The kids were going to be paraded into the house in Arizona where Katherine is staying and those photos would be published on a website favored by Randy Jackson.”

As previously reported Janet was behind Katherine’s removal from her home to Arizona, after becoming adamant that her mom needed bed rest and to be checked out by an independent doctor. And a source has revealed that Katherine is doing just fine.

“Katherine is very well,” a family member told RadarOnline.com. “Janet was behind the whole thing – she felt that Katherine needed medical help and was desperate for her to get some bed rest.”

“Michael’s children are being cared for by their nanny and legal options are being explored about ensuring their safety. The children are very, very smart and they are surrounded by excellent bodyguards that won’t allow anything unsavory to happen to them. The kids just want their grandmother back, and want the family drama to end. Now that Paris and Prince are old enough, they understand why Michael didn’t have much of a relationship with anyone in the family except for Katherine,” the source says.
Source: radaronline.com

Photos of Janet and Jermaine (or Austin?) outside:



New message from the estate:

Quote :
FROM THE ESTATE OF MICHAEL JACKSON

We thank the fans for their keen interest in the matters that have been reported on recently regarding the Estate and Mrs. Jackson.

We will not comment any further on the letter we received from certain of the Jackson siblings. We think our letter in response speaks for itself.

We are acutely concerned about the welfare of Mrs. Jackson, and most particularly with Michael's minor children. We are concerned that we do what we can to protect them from undue influences, bullying, greed, and other unfortunate circumstances. While we do not have standing to directly intervene, we have monitored the situation and will continue to do so. We believe measures are being put in place that will help protect them from what they are having to deal with.

We take these matters very seriously and will continue to report on them as appropriate.

Sincerely,

John Branca
John McClain
Co-Executors
The Estate of Michael Jackson

And apparently there was as report of physical assault from inside the house today.

I am so fucking confused right now. :/
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PostSubject: Re: Fans Vs. Fam   Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:41 am

joanwas_quizzical wrote:
I am so fucking confused right now. :

My feelings EXACTLY.

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PostSubject: Re: Fans Vs. Fam   Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:44 am

^ Like, the better part of me knows that tabloids and news outlets are ALWAYS biased and this "inside source" sounds like a member of MJJC or something, but then again....why would the siblings show up to take the kids?

And Janet, I thought she was in Italy! There were photos just released like two days ago of her over there. How on earth does she know if Katherine is well or not if she wasn't even in the country?

The Estate seems to be very much against the Jacksons which I don't think is a good thing to be going around and saying. They should remain neutral on the issue.

Edit: Forgot that I was thinking of some "theories" behind all of this today -

1. Could it be possible that perhaps Katherine has been taking painkillers or something of the like since Michael passed? I mean we know she took it very hard, but maybe the problem has only just become clear to the family and they needed to get her away from the kids. Arizona is known (I think?) for Rehab centres, so perhaps that's why she was taken there and why she can't have any contact with the kids. That said, if that was the truth and that got out, I think the kids would be taken away from her, right?

2. Sort of a similar theory that my mum actually came up with....Katherine could be going senile. Maybe the family took her away to see just how bad she was, and to come up with a plan to somehow take care of the kids.

I just can't ever believe that the Jacksons would take Katherine away from Michael's kids without a solid, good reason. There is obviously something going on that we don't know about, and I don't think they're working against the kids or anything stupid like that. I hate the fact that now everyone is reporting that they trespassed onto the grounds of the compound which is ridiculous, because they're family! I mean this is all being blown way out of proportion.
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PostSubject: Re: Fans Vs. Fam   Tue Jul 24, 2012 2:13 pm

joanwas_quizzical wrote:
I just can't ever believe that the Jacksons would take Katherine away from Michael's kids without a solid, good reason. There is obviously something going on that we don't know about, and I don't think they're working against the kids or anything stupid like that. I hate the fact that now everyone is reporting that they trespassed onto the grounds of the compound which is ridiculous, because they're family! I mean this is all being blown way out of proportion.

That's what I keep thinking too. I'm sick of reading the excuses that they're out for Michael's money or it's jealousy or something else similar. That has gotten so old, it's not even funny. Plus, do these accusers who say things like this not realise that if Katherine is out of the picture that they won't be entitled to MJ's money just because they happen to become the legal guardians of the kids? Honestly, the logic in that theory is just...No wait, sorry, there is NO logic in that theory.

Two more things to rant about (haha!)

- I'm sick of reading things like "Michael, your kids need you now..." etc etc...I'm not going to mince words here: Michael was a Jackson through and through...ie. not a great communicator, and a master of manipulation and concealing the truth. Sorry if that sounds harsh, but hypothetically, if a semi-similar situation was going on, say ten years ago, I can picture him being just as cryptic and vague about things too. He was a classic for shoving things under the rug and not dealing with them

- I love that Katherine and Janet are the angels in this situation, and of course, the other siblings, namely Jermaine, are the ones who get the heat. I'm sick to death of this constant blame game. I have nothing against any of the Jacksons per se, and am sick of trying to keep up this constant theme of 'sibling jealousy and money hungry...' I'm sorry, but from what I've read of this scenario, Janet is right up there in the situation, and isn't exactly on the side of 'good' either. It would almost make me laugh to see that Janet was the orchestrator of this whole scheme, just to see the look on some fans faces.

The way that people say that Jermaine is a constant liar, or he's being rude in his tweets, or whatever? Oh my god, it's a f*cking tweet, who can tell the context behind it? Ugggh, this is so old now.

I agree with you Rhea, about a possible theory that maybe Katherine has been receiving treatment for something and she clearly didn't want the kids to know. Right now, I feel like that is quite a logical explanation. That she had to go to Arizona for some reason or another, and didn't want the kids to know (if it's related to prescription meds, it makes sense that PPB would be completely out of the loop) and the siblings got together and organised for her to go away, and the kids panicked when they hadn't heard from her and this is how this whole thing started?...Who knows, but I'm trying to fit the pieces together in any way!

I'm done (for now!).

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PostSubject: Re: Fans Vs. Fam   Tue Jul 24, 2012 2:20 pm

I'm right with you on that, Gemma! I am sick to DEATH of seeing the same old, "They're going to get rid of Katherine so that they can have the kids and get the money" shit. It makes ZERO sense. This ain't the 1930s where guardians could freely take money. Most of it is in trustfunds anyway, which the kids will get when they turn 18 or 21. There is no way anybody except who was named in the will (Katherine and the kids) will get any money. Ever. So there goes that so-called "theory" these crazy ass fans are throwing around LOL!

Gemma, I just had thought as I was reading your last few sentences....what if this was an intervention?

The whole thing.

It would explain SO many things, the secrecy and why the kids seem to be out of the loop. The high emotions. The letter to the Estate.

That doctor from the trial.

Edit: Reading the thread on MJJE and Chamone reminded me of the OTHER theory that I think could maybe be true -

The same thing is happening to the kids that happened to both Michael and La Toya. They're surrounded by people who are keeping the family out, who are trying to get to the money and are blocking off lines of communication. Not sure who it is, but obviously the letter from the fam to the Estate eluded to that and the fact the Estate is doing nothing to get rid of these people. I think that Doctor that Paris mentioned on Twitter could be one of them. There seems to be a lot of people from the Murray timeline who are still hanging around.

I think that could be a really plausible explanation, and also explains why there was such a big deal when Janet and co tried to go get the kids today/yesterday.

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PostSubject: Re: Fans Vs. Fam   Tue Jul 24, 2012 2:47 pm

More "info":

Quote :
Michael Jackson's Kids Met With Attorney After Attempt To Take Them From Their Home


Michael Jackson's children, Prince, Paris and Blanket, met with their court-appointed attorney, Margaret Lodise, on Monday evening after Jermaine, Randy and Janet Jackson attempted to take the kids to Arizona, and Lodise could be going to court on Tuesday to address concerns she has about the kids' well being and safety, RadarOnline.com is exclusively reporting.

The King of Pop's children were given their own attorney to represent their best interests after their father tragically died three years ago, and Margaret Lodise was appointed to be their guardian ad litem.

"Margaret went to the house on Monday evening as a meeting with the children was requested," a source close to the situation tells Radar. "This came after Jermaine, Randy and Janet tried to take them out of state. Katherine has now been out of the picture for over a week, and legal options are now being pursued in order to ensure that the children are safe.

"It's certainly extremely concerning to Margaret Lodise that Katherine has been out of town for over a week and that the children haven't spoken to her in that time. Katherine needs to get home quickly because there could be far reaching consequences as far as custody of the kids goes as it pertains to Katherine. It's very likely that Lodise will be going to court as early as Tuesday to express her concerns to the judge, as she has a legal obligation to do so.

"Paris got into a scuffle with her aunt Janet upon entering the house because she told Paris she had to stop posting family information on Twitter. Janet physically tried to take Paris' cell phone from her, but she wouldn't give it up. It was just a very, very unfortunate situation that didn't need to occur. If Katherine isn't physically capable of taking care of the kids anymore, then the Courts are going to get involved, and very quickly. The kids can't be caught in the middle of the ongoing drama of the Jackson family, period."

Meanwhile, as RadarOnline.com previously reported, Jermaine, Randy and Janet Jackson have been barred from their mother Katherine's Calabasas home after attempting to remove the kids from the house on Monday. The situation adds to the ongoing drama with the Jackson family, as Katherine has been in Arizona for more than a week and hasn't spoken to her grandchildren, of whom she is the legal guardian. "It was just total chaos when Jermaine, Randy and Janet descended on the house," the source revealed.

"The plan to take the kids out of the house was going to be a publicity stunt. The kids were going to be paraded into the house in Arizona where Katherine is staying and those photos would be published on a website favored by Randy Jackson."

Paris posted on her Twitter: "8 days and counting . something is really off , this isn’t like her at all .. i wanna talk directly to my grandmother!!<|3"

Reports circulated on Monday night that Trent Jackson was manipulating Paris to post negative things about the family.

"That is absolutely laughable," the source says. "Prince, Paris and Blanket could all be hauled into court to tell the judge what is going on and Paris would reveal that no one forced her to do anything as far as her Twitter is concerned. In fact, the last thing the Jackson family would want is for those kids to testify under oath about what is really going on in the family. The kids are ready to go to court, as they feel the only thing that can bring their grandmother home," the source says.

I don't know how much of this is true, but the bolded....I kind of agree with Janet's actions, to be honest.
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PostSubject: Re: Fans Vs. Fam   Tue Jul 24, 2012 8:26 pm

*deep sigh*

I hope the family resolve their issues. I mean, seriously. I really hate that all of this is spilling over into the public. I know they are famous and whatnot, but still. I agree with Janet - putting things continually out on Twitter solves nothing. Not a single thing. I understand Paris' concerns but social media does nothing. It's only made matters worse and quite embarrassing. And, I love that Paris is head-strong. But that doesn't mean that an elder (namely, Janet) should have to simply go along with everything she says and does. If that report is true, it's concerning. Again, I love that Paris is strong-willed. But I really hope they all will remain respectful.

I'm sick of the fans, tbh. I don't want to keep reading about the evil Jacksons and money and "poor Michael". I really think I had it when some started to insinuate that race played a factor (essentially, labeling the family racist). Nope. Done. I don't want to hear a single thing about that. I've actually stopped reading the reports. It's their issue. We as fans don't even have half the details. Healthy discussion is fine. But many of these fans simply H-A-T-E the Jacksons.

And Gemma, you've read my mind. I'm sick of reading posts about "Michael needing to be here". Guess what, MICHAEL'S GONE. Unfortunate, yes. But repeatedly writing how much Michael should be here does nothing. He's not here. And someone said "we all need Michael" - meaning the fans too. Shocked I understand how we want him back, but to act as if we - the fans - can't go on??? And those "words" and pleas to Debbie Rowe? Shocked As if Debbie is somewhere trolling through fansites or will follow their infinite wisdom. Do any of these fans know that they don't know Paris? Or Debbie? Or Jermaine? The Family? Or Michael, even?

I am actually surprised that the Estate has come out strongly against the family, but I think the battle lines have eventually been drawn between them. And apparently, highly delusional fans feel as if they have a real say in the matter. Shocked And a few think they can speak for all of us.

I don't agree with many of the actions of the family, but I don't hate them. To hate them is downright stupid. How do you hate people you don't even know? Dislike their actions, but to involve yourself in this (as a fan) is delusional.

EDIT: More and more keeps pouring out. It's getting hard telling fact from fiction. All of this has went down the drain. I hear the Estate is looking for temporary custody? Idk, guys. And will the Jacksons (all of 'em) get off Twitter. My gosh - it's not helping!


Last edited by Michelle on Tue Jul 24, 2012 9:05 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Fans Vs. Fam   Tue Jul 24, 2012 8:40 pm

holy wtf is going on? Things just keep getting crazier and crazier! Now T.J. (Tito's son) is seeking temporary guardianship I guess and the kids have been moved to a different location (?) for their safety...and the estate is supporting this completely.

Idk, I'm just sooo confused about all this crap. It's one question after another and there are no answers.

Quote :
I hope the family resolve their issues. I mean, seriously. I really hate that all of this is spilling over into the public. I know they are famous and whatnot, but still. I agree with Janet - putting things continually out on Twitter solves nothing. Not a single thing. I understand Paris' concerns but social media does nothing. It's only made matters worse and quite embarrassing. And, I love that Paris is head-strong. But that doesn't mean that an elder (namely, Janet) should have to simply go along with everything she says and does. If that report is true, it's concerning. Again, I love that Paris is strong-willed. But I really hope they all will remain respectful.

I'm sick of the fans, tbh. I don't want to keep reading about the evil Jacksons and money and "poor Michael". I really think I had it when some started to insinuate that race played a factor (essentially, labeling the family racist). Nope. Done. I don't want to hear a single thing about that. I've actually stopped reading the reports. It's their issue. We as fans don't even have half the details. Healthy discussion is fine. But many of these fans simply H-A-T-E the Jacksons.

me too Dana. I'm essentially worried about Katherine, her health, and those kids well being. But as you said, we are not family and don't know what is actually going on. There seems to be more to it than any of the family members are willing to say.

and I'm also glad Paris is head-strong, but tweeting is just blowing these things up. You know she has to have information of what's going on from other family members. But you also have to wonder which ones and why she isn't believing them.

ugh, and YES to the 'evil greedy family' comments. What the hell? We don't even know what is going on for the most part. And the fans rolling out the 'poor michael...i wish he was here' bs is just grrrrr. Why even go there? or with the Debbie stuff?

and the racial toting fans need to pack up and get out. Race has no business in this family situation. It's their own sick heads that conjure up that nonsense.
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PostSubject: Re: Fans Vs. Fam   Tue Jul 24, 2012 9:11 pm

^
Exactly.

And apparently Paris just responded to someone who said, "no wonder Michael stayed away from his family". She said "yep" or something to that effect.

Again, even if this stuff within the family has caused disagreements or gotten out of hand and even with Paris being headstrong - please, stop airing it all out on twitter. The public does not need any more than what media will already surely give us. Just stop it.

TJ is looking for guardianship? So this is essentially family against family, huh? All of this should have stayed in the family. But, from what we know of the past, the family has never been one one accord (except during the trial, maybe).

*sigh* This sucks. But I refuse to demonize anybody. Apparently us fans need to "take sides." Whatever.
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PostSubject: Re: Fans Vs. Fam   Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:50 pm

Jesus, this is SUCH a clusterfuck.
I don't even see how anyone can even "take sides" here when the situation is so confusing and unclear. To take a side at this point is just stupid. None of us know the details, like you said^.

The only things I feel I can have an opinion on:

-Paris going a week without speaking to her legal guardian is a concern. No one in the family could have told her "Your grandmother is going to Arizona for medical treatment for a couple of weeks and you won't be able to call her, don't be alarmed, if you need anything we're here"? I think that's a valid criticism of the siblings.

-Katherine being secluded with such little communication going on in the family is weird and shady on the surface, but we don't know what the health concerns and other factors there are, so I really can't make a judgement there.

-I think Janet is justified in her wishes for this shit not to be aired out on twitter. Fans can cry "don't oppress Paris"!!!!!!!! all they want, but at the end of the day she is 14 and these are some serious personal matters that effect everyone in the family and I am going to be honest and say that I do think her tweets are fueling a fire of hysteria and paranoia both within the fanbase AND the media.

-That said, being scared and worried as a kid when your legal guardian is gone without communication is a GOOD thing to publicly tweet, in my head. If there really was something shady going on that possibly endangered these kids somehow, it would be good for Paris to alert people and get help. BUT, imo we've passed that stage and her tweets do read as melodramatic.

Everything else is just speculation and claims from ~inside sources~.
Fans tweeting to Paris about her father and her other family members in such a creepy and all-knowing way bothers the FUCK out of me. Like this kid needs a bunch of strangers sending her messages like "SEE YOUR FATHER ALWAYS HATED YOUR FAMILY THEY ARE A BUNCH OF LEECHES BLAH BLAH"? I think that it turn is fueling Paris' own worry, judging by her tweets.

Apparently Joe Vogel and Chris Thompson are having it out on Twitter. Not sure exactly what the claims about racism are all about though...




It's be nice if everyone would just sit back and let this family figure their shit out, outside of the spotlight. But we all know that's never gonna happen.


EDIT: Haha, funnily enough this is the one time Karen Faye has ever said something I can get behind:


Quote :
Jackson's never get a break from the fans. They are damned when they try to intervene in a situation regarding their family...and damned if they don't.

Quote :
I suggest you let the family do what they feel they need to do. Fans think they "know" everything that is happening. They did not know everything 3 years ago, and they don't now. I was close 3 years ago, and I didn't and still don't know everything.

Quote :
I think fans are very confused by my tweets, because I have not chosen a side. I am trying to be rational, by not getting emotionally worked up, and accuse ppl of things, when I do not know all the facts. This is a war that I am not attending.

And the cray cray fans that usually kiss Karen Faye's ass are now saying things like "I've lost all respect for her" and "She's forgotten Michael's message" (the fuck does that mean? Pretty sure one of Michael's main messages was don't judge shit when you don't know shit).

ALSO someone of MJJC just said this about Janet: "And not at all surprised to see donkey's disgusting Dunk ass involved in this."

These are some hateful people.


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PostSubject: Re: Fans Vs. Fam   Wed Jul 25, 2012 12:35 am

Wow. I agree with everything you just posted AmyQ And I even agree with Karen (for once, haha!)

Joe Vogel and Charles T- Seriously? We've got writers battling it out. Fans battling it out with fans. Fans battling it out with family. Family battling it out with family. And all over reasons we (the public) don't even know. WTH happened?

And I wonder what that whole racism thing is about?

I keep saying: let this family deal with their stuff. Fans have no part! I think MJJC just did an interview with some news site. silent I've had enough of the hate the fans have decided to throw out. I've quit two forums over the last two days. Sick, sick people.
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PostSubject: Re: Fans Vs. Fam   Wed Jul 25, 2012 12:38 am

Omg bear with me but I'm figuring out slowly how to articulate what's in my head:

Katherine is 82. There are dozens of reasons she might need a short vacation to de-stress from raising three adolescent and pre-adolescent kids...As wonderful as I'm very sure Prince Paris and Blanket are, Price and Paris are at "That Age" right now. Just as MJ fans continue to view Michael as a flawless angelic being incapable of doing wrong, I sometimes feel that they view his kids that way by extension, and I think that some of this mayhem is rooted in that.

My grandmother practically raised my two cousins while their parents worked their asses of at jobs with long hours. When she got older and they were around Prince's age, they were capable of being really shitty to her. With words, with actions, with attitudes, etc. I love my cousins to death and they are fantastic, funny, smart, kind people, but when kids are a certain age they DO go through a rebellious streak. It's biological. My grandmother took it in stride, but I definitely think it got to her and this is one of the reasons she could never give up smoking -- it was the only thing that calmed her down after a long day with the grandkids. She had her escapes -- a cigarette and prayer/meditation at the end of the day.

I'm not saying I know this to be the case with Katherine and the kids, but it's absolutely a possibility that Katherine has been having a tough time with her grandchildren lately. So for MJ fans to rampage like this, accusing the family and Katherine of not wanting or loving Michael's children, as if needing a vacation is the same as not wanting them, is really misguided and myopic to me.
My grandmother could have used a vacation to de-stress and be apart from my cousins for a week and play Uno or something. But even then, her grandkids were her entire LIFE. She lived and breathed to love us. But as an elderly woman...yeah, kids' shenanigans can TOTALLY take a toll on her health. And Janet, being her daughter and being worried for her mental health, might want to take her on a trip to de-stress. That makes sense to me. That is reasonable to me.

Of course, like I said before, the thing I still have an issue with is the lack of communication with the kids. Take their grandma on a vacation, but at least keep the kids informed of what's up.
Here's the thing though: MJ fans are acting like the Jacksons, in their failure to keep PPB informed, are a uniquely hideous breed of people. When the truth is, MOST adults treat kids that age that way. Do I think this is right? No. I think adults underestimate kids too much. But that's going to happen in every family at some point. Paris and Prince are at that shitty age where they don't want to be treated like "kids" anymore, but to the adults around them, they're still sooooo young and everyone's instinct is going to be to shelter them from information or whatever that might stress them out.
What you have here is just a case of adults underestimating a 14-year-old's awareness and ability to understand (and her connection to the internet, lol).
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PostSubject: Re: Fans Vs. Fam   Wed Jul 25, 2012 12:52 am

Actually I think the kids WERE told and then Trent - who filed the missing persons report - alarmed Paris and got her worked up. They may have been told that their Grandma was going away for a few days (remember she was meant to see a concert?), and then it turned into a week and THAT'S when things got out of control. Paris had Katherine's number from the first day, but it was when she couldn't get through that the alarm bells were raised.

So Paris definitely knew from the start where Katherine was.

Just watched the videos btw and at first I was really confused as to why Janet was filming on her phone, but then I realised that she was probably trying to film the security and how they were trying to keep her and Randy out. I have strong feelings now that it's the security and the people around the kids that are causing the problems, and why the siblings came to try to take them away. It reminds me exactly of Michael and La Toya's individual situations in the 90's and 2000's.

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PostSubject: Re: Fans Vs. Fam   Wed Jul 25, 2012 12:56 am

I typed this whole response to your post Amy and ended up deleting it. Uggghh!

I agree so much with your post. I think this whole situation has been blown out of proportion. And the rabid fans have taken it to an extreme level. I actually agree with Janet, so far. Paris is a wonderful, intelligent, strong-willed girl. But she is a child. Her first tweets were of a genuine concern, I feel. But the latest ones have been more and more defiant - and it really relates to what you're pointing out in your post, Amy. I respect her looking out for her grandmother, but she has to realize that tweeting family business (continually) isn't helping. It's making matters worse.

I totally feel you about grandmothers and getting older. My own granny is 82 and I can so relate to what you're talking about.

Randy and Janet will be on Al Sharpton's show on MSNBC tonight. I really want to hear their side of things. Not media reports or fan speculation. If you girls watch it, could you give a brief review of it later? I have to go to school tonight. But I hope to check in during our breaks.

EDIT: I thought that too yesterday, Rhea! That same thing! And considering that she seemed okay that night at the concert. It (being very honest) made me think if she was simply rebelling against something or someone. As if she hadn't gotten her way and decided to resort to Twitter. (?) Idk. All speculation.
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PostSubject: Re: Fans Vs. Fam   Wed Jul 25, 2012 12:59 am

Sorry if my thoughts are all over the place, I've literally only just woken up LOL and I need to go get ready for work in a sec - I want to reply to everyone's points so badly but I just don't have time!!

But I need to say - where is La Toya?!
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PostSubject: Re: Fans Vs. Fam   Wed Jul 25, 2012 1:09 am

Michelle wrote:
It (being very honest) made me think if she was simply rebelling against something or someone. As if she hadn't gotten her way and decided to resort to Twitter. (?) Idk. All speculation.

I got the same vibe, to be frank...

I don't have cable so I won't be able to watch Al Sharpton's show, but I would also appreciate it if someone who can would do a quick write-up of it.
I just read that TMZ is ~reporting~ (I use that term loosely, because hello, it's TMZ) that Janet slapped Paris and called her a spoiled little bitch, prompting Paris to slap Janet back and say "get the fuck out of my house". And that Trent (I think?) supposedly punched Jermaine in the mouth and put Randy in a headlock? I won't buy this for a minute until I see proof, but MJ fans are already gunning for Janet's head after reading that. SO goddamn quick to believe the first thing they read.
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PostSubject: Re: Fans Vs. Fam   Wed Jul 25, 2012 1:14 am

^ That's so obviously NOT in the footage, LMAO! There's no slapping or anything. It's just Janet trying to take the phone. But of course fans will believe the report over the actual footage, haha.
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PostSubject: Re: Fans Vs. Fam   Wed Jul 25, 2012 1:18 am

Oh my god, I keep hoping that people will wake up and realise the absurdity of their argument but this whole fiasco has turned into one 'Let's hate the Jacksons! (Even more than what we did before!)'

To be honest, this behaviour has gotten to be embarrassing and it's the first time in a LONG time that I've been so embarrassed to be a part of the fan community. I just don't understand where people get their logic from.

The Paris tweeting issue has gotten so out of hand. In my opinion, she's now giving fans the chance to add more fuel to the fire because it looks like she's locked up in a tower somewhere, unable to talk to anyone. It's very melodramatic and I think Janet was completely within her right to remove Paris's phone. Once again, fans are taking this as a deliberate assault on Paris and talk of "oppressing her" and other sh*t.

And we HAVE to pick sides apparently? Despite the fact the situation is so cloudy and no one knows for sure what's going on. You're either on the side of the siblings or you're NOT. Look out, if you ARE on their side cos clearly you don't realise that they're money hungry sh*ts. (Oh but not Janet, cos she's an angel and has her OWN money unlike Jermaine...) Do these fans not realise that it appears that Janet is one of the masterminds behind this whole thing? Ugh.

And I'm sick to death of reading all these comments about how Jermaine has always been jealous and his career has been dead for ages....Like, he's going to get a record deal out of all of this?!?! As if! How do some people's minds work????????

And the fact that people are pleading for Debbie Rowe to intervene...Why...Just, why? She is their biological Mother for sure, but unless she's been seeing her kids every other weekend for the past 14/15 years, she has NO right to step in. It's like Katherine Heigl's daughter (who is adopted) getting caught in some situation and Katherine and her husband aren't doing anything (supposedly) and fans start calling for the daughter's biological parents to step in...I don't understand.

The more I think about the whole thing, there is clearly something up with Katherine that she and the others don't want to know about. Like you said, Rhea, it could be an intervention of sorts. It sounds outrageous but I feel like everything adds up to that.

But then moving onto the theories that it's people like security or others who are around the kids that are causing problems, is also very valid. But once again, apparently that's SO hard for fans to believe (even though that's what happened to their beloved Michael) because they're so determined to make the siblings act as the 'bad-guys' in this story. It's getting old, guys, seriously. Open your f*cking eyes and think outside the box.

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PostSubject: Re: Fans Vs. Fam   Wed Jul 25, 2012 1:36 am

joanwas_quizzical wrote:
^ That's so obviously NOT in the footage, LMAO! There's no slapping or anything. It's just Janet trying to take the phone. But of course fans will believe the report over the actual footage, haha.

Well, according to TMZ, the footage ~led~ up to the "assault". Which was conveniently not captured on film? Lol ok.
But yeah, the fact remains that MJ fans will believe anything that vilifies the siblings.

hprox wrote:


And the fact that people are pleading for Debbie Rowe to intervene...Why...Just, why? She is their biological Mother for sure, but unless she's been seeing her kids every other weekend for the past 14/15 years, she has NO right to step in. It's like Katherine Heigl's daughter (who is adopted) getting caught in some situation and Katherine and her husband aren't doing anything (supposedly) and fans start calling for the daughter's biological parents to step in...I don't understand.

Yes! Your whole post is right on, but this part stood out to me because I've been wondering the same thing. Like on what planet is that the most logical step to make? No.
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